CPR after rigor mortis

Specialties Geriatric

Published

Hello All, Do u know where I can find information referring to Long term care scope of practice for RN's? What is the policy on starting cpr after rigor mortis set in? Thank you:)

Why, I never heard of such a stupid thing in my whole life--that does not even make sense--CPR--rigor mortis????

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CPR should never be attempted when rigor mortis is present. It is a confirming sign of death.The circulatory system has already shut down.l

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cpr should never be attempted when rigor mortis is present. it is a confirming sign of death.the circulatory system has already shut down.l

i totally agree and i don't know what this educator is teaching......i guess it is for the best interest of the ltc facility......doesn't matter to them i guess if it is unethical....thanks for your input.

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cpr should never be attempted when rigor mortis is present. it is a confirming sign of death.the circulatory system has already shut down.l

i totally agree with you.....i don't know what this educator is teaching the employees.........it seems to me they just are trying to make sure their butts are covered but really is disrespectful and unethical at least in my opinion. thanks for ur imput.

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why, i never heard of such a stupid thing in my whole life--that does not even make sense--cpr--rigor mortis????

i know it is very senseless.....but my ltc facility is telling the rn's now they can only pronounce death if pt is a dnr.....but if a full code no matter what condition cpr has to be started....did u ever hear of such a thing?

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hummmm when I worked the ER we had a volunteer ambulance crew bring in a DOA...that they were doing CPR on...been dead say long enough to have dependent levity and rigor...found in a hotel room overdosed. :rotfl: I asked them what was going on and they said "well we couldn't get an airway so we had to just bag him...." no clue :deadhorse hehe I was amazed :rotfl:

I work for a volunteer ambulance service in Utah. Up until about 2 years ago, we didn't have any protection for not starting CPR on dead people. (I'm talking about way dead, rigor etc...) If an ambulance is dispatched, the EMT's have to run the code to cover themselves. If they don't do CPR to the best of their ability, they could be charged with abandonment. Stupid, but true. It depends on the state EMS code. For the most part, EMT's can't pronounce a patient dead, so it falls under duty to act. One more point, DNR's are not valid in the prehospital setting in Utah unless the patient has a "special Prehospital DNR". The laws are slow to change, but the bottom line is if someone calls 911, we are to assume the patient wants all the help we can give, even when we know they are way beyond help.

Lori

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Please bring to your Nurse educators attention regarding the current ACLS guideline, it clearly states that CPR should not be started if rigor mortis is present.

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Specializes in Geriatric, LTC, PC, home care, pediatric.

Oh, for the days before DNR's sigh.................... But seriously, they have been helpful. I just remember the days when I was in LTC, many, many, moons ago, where you didn't do CPR on anyone. If they were passing, the MD was called, family called, and if they wanted them to stay, we held their hand, read the bible, kept them comfortable, as they slipped away as peacefully as possible. We then bathed them again, combed their hair, set them up if family wanted to come see them. If they didn't, we still bathed them, put in their teeth, etc. And wrapped them in a shroud, closed all the doors to any rooms, including break room. Announced "Mr. Green was going to the green room." Or some such, so that everyone cleared the halls, and elevator, (we only had one). They were able to go with as much dignity as posssible. That is what I want, not someone needlessly pounding on my chest. In PA RN's may pronounce death if no MD present. In LTC, you must check, and document it, all resident's every two hours. In Personal Care faciliy they must be checked every hour. I have been one nurse and one aide on 11p-7a shift for 80 pts in LTC. Very hard to do everything every two hours, but we did our best. AED's originally needed scripts to have them, they were found to be very helpful, healthcare lobbied, government made them available to the general public. If someone has a heart problem and MD thinks AED will help, a script is needed to get insurance to pay for it.

Everyone keep smiling, remember we all work different nursing, and just get along and stay off the soapboxes please. Thanks :coollook:

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i know it is very senseless.....but my ltc facility is telling the rn's now they can only pronounce death if pt is a dnr.....but if a full code no matter what condition cpr has to be started....did u ever hear of such a thing?

well acls guidelines state that certain measures should take place prior to calling a code. intubation, first line meds, and differential diagnosis. so just doing cpr for 10 minutes doesnt cut it. (no rigor mortis). in ltc, you cannot provide that, so it makes sense not to allow you to pronounce a full code patient with only minimal bls support (most ltc are without aed's as well).

in many states, although emt's cannot pronounce, they can radio a physician after all attempts have failed, intubation and meds given, and the doc will call it. they then leave the patient at the ltc center versus transporting a asystole patient with no chance of survival.

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I have worked in management in long term care for several years and every facility I have worked in has the same policy:

If a person is not a DNR- you are to initiate CPR and you send them out 9-1-1 no matter how you find them unless:

-Obvious lividity is present

or

-they are decapitated (God help us in LTC if this is EVER the case!!!) :uhoh3:

These are the only 2 reasons policy has allowed a licensed individual to make the determination that coding someone is not necessary. Doesn't really give us much credit does it?!

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That passed ridiculous a long time ago. I would never even attempt that scene. Let them fire me over it, I'd make sure that story was plastered in as many papers as I could.

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:chuckle I'm not going to do CPR after rigor mortis period. I don't want to go to jail for abusing a corpse.

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