Could diploma programs make a comeback?

Posted
by Rose_Queen Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN (Admin) Educator Expert Nurse

Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development. Has 17 years experience.

New diploma program created in central Pennsylvania to help with nursing shortage

Quote

UPMC Shadyside School of Nursing at UPMC Harrisburg will offer a 16-month accelerated diploma program for registered nurses.

First-year students will have the opportunity to take non-nursing courses at Harrisburg University, nursing courses from UPMC faculty, and complete over 900 hours of clinical rotations at UPMC Harrisburg and other regional UPMC facilities.

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2022/02/registration-now-open-for-a-new-nursing-school-in-central-pa-financial-incentives-available.html

subee, MSN, CRNA

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired. Has 50 years experience. 4,076 Posts

Hmmm.  I'm not sure that thus is a good thing.  They want to take a high school grad directly into this program and crank an RN out in 16 months?  And the cost seems to be in line with most community colleges, since the stude to will have no time to actually work for the hospitals while they are in school.  So one saves only 8 months and no money to finish with nothing but a diploma with courses that can't be transferable to a 4 year college.  I don't see that as a any kind of solution for us or for the student.

amoLucia

amoLucia

Specializes in retired LTC. 7,735 Posts

Maybe first dibbs for new grad positions???

chare

3,504 Posts

14 minutes ago, subee said:

...  So one saves only 8 months and no money to finish with nothing but a diploma with courses that can't be transferable to a 4 year college [emphasis added].  I don't see that as a any kind of solution for us or for the student.

This isn't necessarily the case.

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[...]

Like other offerings you may have seen, the HU BSN program is an 18-month online program that builds on your prior education and experience as a registered nurse with an associate degree or hospital diploma. ...

[...]

Nursing RN to BSN (Online)

subee, MSN, CRNA

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired. Has 50 years experience. 4,076 Posts

14 hours ago, chare said:

This isn't necessarily the case.

Nursing RN to BSN (Online)

I am confused.  I don't know what HU is but it's program is for people who are already nurses.  The Pennsylvania programs are for high school grads.  No pre-reqs. required.

chare

3,504 Posts

1 hour ago, subee said:

I am confused.  I don't know what HU is but it's program is for people who are already nurses. ... 

Yes, I am aware that the Harrisburg University (HU) online RN to BSN program is for those who are already nurses.  However, according to the information available on their website, the only requirement is to be an RN.  And, they further state that this program "... builds on your prior education and experience as a registered nurse with an associate degree or hospital diploma."

1 hour ago, subee said:

... The Pennsylvania programs are for high school grads.  No pre-reqs. required.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.  The only prerequisites required by the program I attended were algebra, biology (with lab), and Chemistry (with lab).  They had to be within 5 years of application, and high school course work was acceptable. 

Edited by chare
Corrected university name

MaxAttack, BSN, RN

Specializes in Trauma/surgical/neuro critical care. Has 7 years experience. 379 Posts

"Could diploma programs make a comeback?"

No /thread

Haha but seriously with such a push for BSN and more and more hospitals requiring it or an agreement to get it within x years of hire I don't see diploma programs being more than a solution for very specific areas.

subee, MSN, CRNA

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired. Has 50 years experience. 4,076 Posts

On 2/22/2022 at 1:58 PM, chare said:

Yes, I am aware that the Harrisburg University (HU) online RN to BSN program is for those who are already nurses.  However, according to the information available on their website, the only requirement is to be an RN.  And, they further state that this program "... builds on your prior education and experience as a registered nurse with an associate degree or hospital diploma."

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.  The only prerequisites required by the program I attended were algebra, biology (with lab), and Chemistry (with lab).  They had to be within 5 years of application, and high school course work was acceptable. 

I'm trying to say that these new programs in Pennsylvania are for high school graduates.  There are no prereqs to enter.  So in 16 months, with no previous experience, they want to graduate RN's who I guess could mostly be 19 year old people.  Thus is not the old 3 year programs that we were familiar with, nor are they particularly cheap..

 

On 2/22/2022 at 1:58 PM, chare said:

Yes, I am aware that the Harrisburg University (HU) online RN to BSN program is for those who are already nurses.  However, according to the information available on their website, the only requirement is to be an RN.  And, they further state that this program "... builds on your prior education and experience as a registered nurse with an associate degree or hospital diploma."

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.  The only prerequisites required by the program I attended were algebra, biology (with lab), and Chemistry (with lab).  They had to be within 5 years of application, and high school course work was acceptable. 

Did you read the link to the program?  These aren't programs for RN'S.  These are for high school grads who will be able to enter a 16 month program to become RN'S.  The high school diploma is the only prereq.  I doubt they will be able to work outside of Pennsylvania. They won't even have an ADN.  From what I read on AN, applicants to ADN programs are required to have college level prereqs completed before they are accepted.  Am I incorrect in my reading?  I remember when I was an undergrad in the olden times hospitals wanted to create their own institutional licensure systems so they could get away with minimal training.  

chare

3,504 Posts

48 minutes ago, subee said:

Did you read the link to the program? 

Yes, I did.  Both the article discussing the UPMC Shadyside diploma program as well as the Harrisburg University (HU) RN to BSN page.

48 minutes ago, subee said:

... These are for high school grads who will be able to enter a 16 month program to become RN'S.  The high school diploma is the only prereq. ...

The UPMC program is for high school grads.  The HU program is for RNs with either a diploma or ADN.  Upon successful completion of the HU program, the BSN will be awarded.

And, as for being able to enter the UPMC with only a high school diploma.  When I attended the University of Rio Grande (URG) the only prefequisites were  to have completed algebra, biology (with lab), and Chemistry (with lab).  Both high school and college coursework was evaulated.  These are still the only prequisites.  And, I was definately in the minority as a non-traditional student as most of my classmates had graduated high school schooling prior to starting.

48 minutes ago, subee said:

... I doubt they will be able to work outside of Pennsylvania. They won't even have an ADN. ... 

Yes, again I'm aware that after completing the UPMC program rhey won't have an ADN, they will have a diploma.  And, why won't they be able to work outside of PA?  As far as I'm aware, the requirement is to have completed an approved program; not neccessarily to have been awarded a specific degree 

48 minutes ago, subee said:

... From what I read on AN, applicants to ADN programs are required to have college level prereqs completed before they are accepted.  Am I incorrect in my reading? ...

Some do, and I think it ridiculous to take 12 - 18 months of prerequisites to be accepted into a 2 year associates program.

48 minutes ago, subee said:

... I remember when I was an undergrad in the olden times hospitals wanted to create their own institutional licensure systems so they could get away with minimal training.  

Is that what you think UPMC is doing?  From the UPMC Shadyside SON page:

Quote

In earning your Professional RN Diploma from one of our UPMC Schools of Nursing, you will have met all the necessary requirements to sit for the National Council Licensure Exam (NCLEX – RN) and move forward with Nursing Licensure in the state of Pennsylvania.

 

subee, MSN, CRNA

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired. Has 50 years experience. 4,076 Posts

There is nothing unique about the HU program so that is obviously not the gist of this thread which is "are diploma programs making a comeback?"  I have read threads here on AN of people who couldn't transfer their licenses to California because they were lacking pre-req courses that California requires.  Excelsior in NY notes on it's website that their ADN grads may not be able to work in other states without additional pre-req courses that those states require.  It  doesn't mention that the school offers any college credits which could be a problem for students who may wish to work in other states.