Corrupt Managers/Clinical leaders

RN1989 · Sep 11, 2008

I think that the problem lies in our expectations. Everyone expects a leader to be a GOOD leader when in fact, most leaders are human. Humans engage in this behavior at every level, we all just assume that it shouldn't happen when you are a leader.

Unfortunately, as the healthcare system declines, we find more and more of the good, servant leaders leaving those positions either by force or because they are tired of fighting all the time.

Not a lot that you can do about it. I know how frustrating it is. I was frustrated with such issues as a staff nurse and also as management. If you think what you hear now is bad - you should hear what is said behind closed doors in meetings that are supposed to be productive but are more of a gossip session than anything else.

Hang in there, grin and bear it, fight it when you can.

Xbox Live Addict · Sep 11, 2008

Does anybody else have this same scenario going on where they work? We have a nurse manager, and several nurse leaders on our unit. I have witnessed disturbing behavior from most of them. Specifically, they are constantly targeting some nurse and "nailing" her on small infractions. Not only does there seem to be the revolving witch hunt, but the leaders and manager frequently talk about staff. The talk doesn't seem therapeutic either, it seems more like gossiping and some of the leaders seem to get off on this behavior. They don't necessarily say "Bonny did this or that" rather they will leave out the persons name but talk just loud enough for others to hear. A few of the "in crowd" nurses will know who the gossip is about and that is how the vicious circle starts. By "in crowd" I think you know I am not referring to the great nurses, I am referring to the nurses who promote themselves at all costs to the leadership team (I'm sure we all know some of them). I am not the only nurse who sees this, and though I know some have mentioned our concerns via an anonymous staff satisfaction survery, nothing was done. Matter as a fact, there was talk amongst the leaders about being stabbed in the back by certain staff. Aside from a few of the leaders, most of them are behaving in this manner. It's just such a huge distraction at work. Is there a fix for this without commiting professional suicide? Why does the leadership not strive for the respect of their staff?
Thanks for letting me vent.

This sounds like a toxic environment, and if going to a different facility is an option, I suggest you start looking for what's available. You could try an anonymous complaint to HR, but if the leadership team is so spiteful and "above the law", then it's unlikely HR can or will do anything to alleviate the situation. In any case, you don't need this stress. Nursing is stressful enough.

Drysolong · Sep 11, 2008

This sounds like a toxic environment, and if going to a different facility is an option, I suggest you start looking for what's available. You could try an anonymous complaint to HR, but if the leadership team is so spiteful and "above the law", then it's unlikely HR can or will do anything to alleviate the situation. In any case, you don't need this stress. Nursing is stressful enough.

I completely agree!!! :up:

SmilingBluEyes · Sep 11, 2008

This environment truly sounds dangerously toxic. If you can, you might want to seek employment elsewhere. It's very hard to change a long-standing toxic environment when so many are involved and entrenched. I feel badly as such things can have so many negative consequences-----not only for staff, but patients. If you do leave, you can discuss your concerns in an exit interview with HR. But don't expect much to change unless a lot of people either are fired or leave.

celticwoman61 · Sep 11, 2008

Boy howdy! Can we talk? I am checking on my posts and saw yours and had to respond! Please pop over to my posts regarding my continued situation......

I don't have an answer for you. As a veteran nurse of 16+ years in many different areas, I am constantly running head first into this same situation of which you write. I am 47 years old, consider myself somewhat "worldly", well travelled, educated and well read; yet, I am constantly disappointed in people (co-workers/supervisors). I had an epiphany last week. I must lower my expectations of other people's behavior. Simple? Not for me. Maybe that is my lesson to be learned.

I am battling for my job and suffering emotionally from the stress. I turned in my supervisor for taking patients' narcotics. The supervisor admitted to it and is still working in her position. I on the other hand have been written up for things that have nothing to do with anything (it's called harassment people) and the work environment is so hostile and toxic.

Needless to say, there is something fishy going on. I reported her in June! I am working with my union reps and will be speaking to my attorney.

I realize this doesn't help you any, other than knowing you are not alone. It is ignorant and insecure people that act as you describe. It is the honest people with integrety that leave their jobs because of toxic work environments. It takes a very strong person to go to work, do their job, stay out of the gossip pool and survive. When you show that you are a strong person with an opinion you become a blip on someone's radar and they begin gunning for you.

Only you can make the decision if it is worth staying on there. Will you be the one to take a stand or will you decide to simply blend in? Good luck. Let us know how you are doing..... :saint:

oramar · Sep 11, 2008

No one is harder on managment than me but I think corrupt is a strong term. Corrupt means taking kick backs and breaking the law, at least to me it does. Toxic enviroment, nasty person, bad manager these terms are more appropriate and it sounds like these people are all of them. Management needs to think about the term "back stabbing". These surveys are not the employees idea. Frequently we are harassed until we fill them out. We are told over and over to say what we really think and that they are anonymous. Matter of fact once I didn't do one and it came up in my evaulation. However, I also have had managers that seemed to know what was said and who said it and who lashed out. Usually once a person is burned like this they will never be honest on a survey again. It is not back stabbing to do as you are told and fill the survey out they way you are told to fill it out. These people are behaving in a very childish manner when they take it personally. Do they have any managment training at all? Once I had a friend who was a psychologist who was involved in making surveys. He told me that these surveys are set up to view anything that is reported in a very balanced way. Matter of fact he said that reviews that are all glowing are viewed with suspicion as well as reviews that are all negative. The world does not work that way and they are perfectly well aware that surveys can be tilted.

classicdame, MSN, EdD · Sep 12, 2008

I would talk to HR and to Risk Management. If someone is experiencing bullying at work then these depts need to be aware. It may be against corporate compliance policy. For sure it interferes with patient care and morale.

calliesue · Sep 12, 2008

mean people suck ! :devil:

I have a new track I am trying at work. I go in to work, smile once in awhile, am nice to others , do the best I can do for my patients, and go home at the end of my shift.

In as much as it is up to me I will live in peace with all people, sort of. :saint: Cause you can't fix people.

RNinNewEngland · Sep 12, 2008

Thanks to all of you for your words. In some ways it helps to know I'm not alone, although the thought of being the nurse on the barrel end of this kind of behavior is horrible. No one who is an honest, caring, hardworker should be treated in that manner.

Oramar, your comments about the "anonymous survey" being anything but anonymous ring so true. Why can't management handle the real truth about staff perceptions of them?

I'm not going anywhere for the time being. I tend to avoid gossip, strive to be an excellent nurse, and a valuable colleague. I'm just venting on a constant frustration. I've heard of similar crap at so many other facilities/units. Thank you all again.

A peaceful good evening to you all.

FireStarterRN, BSN, RN · Sep 12, 2008

I agree, it sounds too toxic for you to take on. These people are most likely shrewd political animals who have garnered enough allies to keep their positions secure. I've seen this before. Start laying the groundwork to exit, stage left, with your dignity intact.

Be very gracious when you leave, thanking these managers for all the opportunities that you had there, and that now you're are seeking fresh challanges, yada yada. You know, the usual stuff. Don't give any hint that you're discontent, that's in your best self-interest.

RN, Clearwing · Jan 4, 2010

Unfortunately corrupt leadership in the nursing field is an epidemic. I believe there are some great nurse managers out there who are well educated on the topic of management, have strong morals, strong powers of reasoning and do not feel threatened by some of their staff, but I get the impression from the number of complaints that have "that familiar ring", that great nurse managers are few and far in between. I suspect the great nurses leave the bedside and do not pursue a nurse managers position. I was thinking, maybe nurse managers should be non-nurse individuals with a management degree. It has been my observation that nurse managers possess skills that are too rusty to make a valuable impact on empathizing with staff, many of them are still stuck in "eating their young" or "lateral violence" and find nothing wrong with it because they were abused in that fashion. Women especially in the nursing field can be pretty mean spirited. It doesn't help that modern day nurses suffer from oppressed group syndrome.

Yes, I have witnessed the type of malicious behavior you've described and have been on the receiving end of worse. But what can one do about it if nurses don't stick together and are in denial about being treated shabbily?

For the person who can't embrace the term "corrupt" when it comes to nurse managers, I strongly suggest you look up the definition. The problem with enablers is that we want to bend things (even the definition of words) to our world and to that which makes us comfortable. If it makes you comfortable to deny how corrupt nurse leadership can be I can appreciate your position, but I'm all about Merriam-Webster's definition and avoiding denial.