CNAs no longer doing vitals on our floor

[new_grad_RN]

I work on a med/surg floor where I guess some CNAs complained that nurses abuse them and our manager has now made it where the RNs will be doing all vitals on top of everything else. Is this normal for other hospitals? I understand that everyone is busy, but CNAs used to be able to do so much more. Now at night, they will only be taking patients to the bathroom and changing patients, which the RNs do as well.

[uRNmyway, ASN, RN]

P.S. I think it is hilarious that you think one needs a nursing degree to get a blood sugar, lmao. I wonder what all of those millions of diabetics do come mealtime. And it doesn't take much skill to measure I/O or operate a data scope!

No, I dont think a nursing degree is required to take a blood sugar. Or vitals. I was saying what the CNAs could and couldnt do where I worked in Quebec. But especially now, when Im doing quarterly evaluations on CNAs at the company where I work, I am seeing how unprepared they are. They take vitals, but ask them the normal range and most dont know. They take BG, but again, no clue on normal range. Ask them the difference between Type 1 and Type 2 Db. Nope. Ask what to do if you have hyper/hypo glycemia. Tell the nurse? (By the way, that is simply answers I get, not me being condescending).

I guess I just feel that if I am going to have to interpret the results and intervene if necessary, its not much more for me to just take the darn vitals and BG too!

Oh, and btw, my stepfather is a diabetic. When they are diagnosed, they are scheduled into training programs to learn about diabetes, why it happens, how it happens, how to evaluate, what to recognize, why such-and-such symptoms happen, and what to do about them and why. The classes he took were probably about the length of half the CNA program my employer gives.

And Ive also seen MANY diabetics who have no idea what a good diet is for them, why, what are possible repercussions, etc...

You're right, all it takes to measure I/O is some basic math skills. But again, most of the CNAs I know don't know what could result from imbalances. Again, not people in nursing school.

[uRNmyway, ASN, RN]

You know, this kind of reaction is why I consider leaving Allnurses. I love the lively debates, but it just drives me nuts how people get their panties up in a bunch over perceived insults that were not even a little bit intended. I wish people would keep in mind that not EVERYTHING is specifically aimed at them. Not everything applies to you. Sometimes we really are just speaking about our experiences, and no, they have nothing to do with you, nor do they affect how we or others see you. Sheesh!

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

@Jeweles,

I'm not from Quebec, so I don't understand why you are basing your knowledge/experience in Canada to my experience in a different country.

Where I'm from, a CNA needs a minimum of a high school diploma or an equivalent (at least, at the hospital I work). Some hospitals, especially the magnets, look for nursing students who have at least a term or two worth of nursing courses.

And yes, I do think I am underpaid for what I do, but that doesn't mean I think I should be paid as much as an RN...of course. But PCAs do a lot of the back breaking working and we typically have more patients than our RN counterparts.

Again, I found your post to be very condescending and high and mighty. I don't need you to witness my critical thinking abilities. You aren't the staff that determines what CNAs should and shouldn't be allowed to do, therefore you should stop acting as though you are.

I just don't get it. Nurses complain one minute about being overburdened, and then they complain when a CNA or LPN takes on some "RN responsibilities." Make up your minds, people! It isn't as like we're assessing patients or passing out meds. We are counting respirations, using data scopes to get blood pressures and heart rates, and taking temperatures, not performing head-to-toe body assessments.

But whatever floats your boat, I guess...:?

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

You know, this kind of reaction is why I consider leaving Allnurses. I love the lively debates, but it just drives me nuts how people get their panties up in a bunch over perceived insults that were not even a little bit intended. I wish people would keep in mind that not EVERYTHING is specifically aimed at them. Not everything applies to you. Sometimes we really are just speaking about our experiences, and no, they have nothing to do with you, nor do they affect how we or others see you. Sheesh!

Let's see...you quoted me and kept referring to me in a "you" sense. You also made terrible assumptions about my knowledge, what classes I haven't taken, etc. Of course, I will think the post is aimed at me because you quoted me. Duh!

But go ahead and leave.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

Let's get back on track, please. Let's discuss the subject without nit-picking at each other or engaging in unfriendly debate. Everyone's cooperation is appreciated. Thank you! :)

We promote the idea of lively debate. This means you are free to disagree with anyone on any type of subject matter as long as your criticism is constructive and polite.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

No, I dont think a nursing degree is required to take a blood sugar. Or vitals. I was saying what the CNAs could and couldnt do where I worked in Quebec. But especially now, when Im doing quarterly evaluations on CNAs at the company where I work, I am seeing how unprepared they are. They take vitals, but ask them the normal range and most dont know. They take BG, but again, no clue on normal range. Ask them the difference between Type 1 and Type 2 Db. Nope. Ask what to do if you have hyper/hypo glycemia. Tell the nurse? (By the way, that is simply answers I get, not me being condescending).

I guess I just feel that if I am going to have to interpret the results and intervene if necessary, its not much more for me to just take the darn vitals and BG too!

Oh, and btw, my stepfather is a diabetic. When they are diagnosed, they are scheduled into training programs to learn about diabetes, why it happens, how it happens, how to evaluate, what to recognize, why such-and-such symptoms happen, and what to do about them and why. The classes he took were probably about the length of half the CNA program my employer gives.

And Ive also seen MANY diabetics who have no idea what a good diet is for them, why, what are possible repercussions, etc...

You're right, all it takes to measure I/O is some basic math skills. But again, most of the CNAs I know don't know what could result from imbalances. Again, not people in nursing school.

Again, you are showing that you don't know what you are talking about. Where I am from, CNAs are taught normal ranges and when something is abnormal, we are to report the value to the nurse, or in the case of hypoglycemia, give them some orange or apple juice to raise their blood sugar. We are also taught to tell to the nurses if the sugar is too high so that they can get the medication that WE as CNAs can't give them.

Again, with I/O, we are taught to record them and report when a patient is going too much or hasn't urinated at all in the shift so that the nurse intervenes. Also...

I'm reading your post, and I have a feeling you don't understand what a CNA is. Certified Nurse's Aide...key word: aide. It seems as though you don't want an aide, but I'm sure the majority of nurses would hate to be without some assistance, no matter how "little" it may be!

But if you think you can juggle doing EVERYTHING for 7 patients, be my guest. :)

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

I am making another request to get back on track, please. You are all mature enough to discuss this subject without nit-picking at each other, engaging in unfriendly debate, or resorting to personal attacks. Everyone's cooperation is appreciated and expected from this point forward. Thank you! :)

We promote the idea of lively debate. This means you are free to disagree with anyone on any type of subject matter as long as your criticism is constructive and polite.

[jennilynn]

I am grateful for any help I get from the techs on my floor. I don't have a problem with, and often prefer to get my own set of v/s; after all, it is part of my assessment. If I don't get vitals myself, I am looking them up and promptly following up when and if needed. I don't rely on the techs to tell me an abnormal, if they do give me a head's up...great! If not, it's ultimately my responsibility to know what's going on with my patients.

[uRNmyway, ASN, RN]

@jeweles,

i'm not from quebec, so i don't understand why you are basing your knowledge/experience in canada to my experience in a different country.

ok, well like i said, i am now working in georgia. the minimum requirements here are 8th grade education. actually, in quebec they want at least a high school diploma. so my experience is not only based on quebec, it is based on us observations too. in fact, most of the things that have me concerned have happened in the us.

where i'm from, a cna needs a minimum of a high school diploma or an equivalent (at least, at the hospital i work). some hospitals, especially the magnets, look for nursing students who have at least a term or two worth of nursing courses.

where im from the high school diploma is required too. hospitals don't necessarily look for nursing students, but you are more likely to get a job if you are.

and yes, i do think i am underpaid for what i do, but that doesn't mean i think i should be paid as much as an rn...of course. but pcas do a lot of the back breaking working and we typically have more patients than our rn counterparts.

i agree cnas have more of the backbreaking work. i also agree that cnas have more patients. never did i say otherwise. in hospital, i am always very grateful for the cnas i have. if i had to do all my work plus theirs, i would never finish. however, we can do what they do, and there is a lot of what we do that they cant.

again, i found your post to be very condescending and high and mighty. i don't need you to witness my critical thinking abilities. you aren't the staff that determines what cnas should and shouldn't be allowed to do, therefore you should stop acting as though you are.

i dont see how my posts were condescending or high and mighty. i said that where i am from, cnas can not do those things, and we survive. and no, you dont need me to see your critical thinking abilities. however, if we work together, i do want to know how well you function and how well you recognize problems. i am sure you will want the same in your future cnas when you are an rn. unless i have personally seen you interpret values properly, then i would rather do them myself so i dont miss anything. but that is just me. that is not saying that cnas are incompetent or anything like that. i feel the same way about anyone i work with, if they affect my patients. of course i dont determine what you can and cannot do. i can say what i am comfortable with or not though. and having anyone evaluate my patients if i dont know how well they work, well that makes me uncomfortable. and instead of feeling that way, or spending double the time going over the values they got, i might as well do it myself.

i just don't get it. nurses complain one minute about being overburdened, and then they complain when a cna or lpn takes on some "rn responsibilities." make up your minds, people! it isn't as like we're assessing patients or passing out meds. we are counting respirations, using data scopes to get blood pressures and heart rates, and taking temperatures, not performing head-to-toe body assessments.

i am not complaining about anyone taking on my responsibilities. i am fine with help, really i am. i enjoy working with a team. i just need to be familiar with those i work with and what they are capable of doing. because who gets in trouble if someone misses the blood pressure that was unusually low, the high pulse, and oops, patient is bleeding out. the rn would most likely get severely reprimanded. not to say that the cna wouldnt, but the rn certainly would be too, because ultimately the patient is his/her responsibility.

but whatever floats your boat, i guess...:?

let's see...you quoted me and kept referring to me in a "you" sense. you also made terrible assumptions about my knowledge, what classes i haven't taken, etc. of course, i will think the post is aimed at me because you quoted me. duh!

but go ahead and leave

again, i think we both suffered from misunderstandings. when i said you, i meant cnas. the first post, the entire thing, was describing what cnas can and cant do, what they are and arent trained to do where i am from. in fact, i repeatedly said that i was not referring to cnas who are in nursing school, but those ive worked with who clearly are not. so, once again, you took everything personally when it wasnt meant to be. the fact that i quoted you, sure, you were borderline attacking me and i was responding to all this. that is why you were quoted. show me where specifically i said that you specifically did not take these classes or saying anything about your knowledge levels.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

I am grateful for any help I get from the techs on my floor. I don't have a problem with, and often prefer to get my own set of v/s; after all, it is part of my assessment. If I don't get vitals myself, I am looking them up and promptly following up when and if needed. I don't rely on the techs to tell me an abnormal, if they do give me a head's up...great! If not, it's ultimately my responsibility to know what's going on with my patients.

Question, from CNA to nurse:

Is it because you don't trust techs to report correct vital signs? Because that is the feeling I'm getting from a couple of the posts. Usually, the nurses on my floor look up VS in our system that the techs have posted. Rarely do I see them collecting VS myself, so this is new to me.

[uRNmyway, ASN, RN]

Alright, I am dropping all this, and apologize once again for you taking everything personally. It was not intended. And if you cant see that, I dont know what more to do than apologize. I am sorry OP for monopolizing your thread.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

alright, i am dropping all this, and apologize once again for you taking everything personally. it was not intended. and if you cant see that, i dont know what more to do than apologize. i am sorry op for monopolizing your thread.

well, again, you quoted me, but....

and i'm sorry that you've come across some crappy cnas. it just seems unreal to me that a cna wouldn't know abnormal values/normal ranges when we are expected to report abnormal values. i agree that vital signs are apart of the nursing process, but imagine having to do all those things you've listed...what would the point be in having a cna?