I live in Louisiana and i'm in my 3rd quarter of an ADN program. I am hearing rumors that the state is trying to get something approved that would allow CNA's to give meds. From what i hear other states already do this. Is this true? and How do you feel about CNA's giving meds?
I personally am totally against this. CNA's do not have the education to be able to properly administer meds to patients. CNA's in my area get paid about 6 or 7 dollars an hour and have to take a class for a few weeks to a few months at most in order to get certified. How could anyone possibly put something as important and potentially life threatening in the hands of someone that has a few weeks to few months training?
Who retains the responsibility and accountability for med errors? CNAs don't have a license, so whose is on the line if a mistake is made? I haven't heard of these in FL yet, but I've also never set foot in an LTC (we don't rotate there in school). Does the facility start putting one LPN on each shift who "oversees" passing of meds to 100 residents? I don't really believe in the nursing shortage, I feel it's more a shortage of people willing to work as nurses (or go to school to become nurses) given the current pay and staffing conditions. When RNs began starting IVs, MDs didn't retain the accountability for any malpractice, did they? If the nurse is held responsible and his/her license is on the line every time a CNA passes meds, then I have a problem with it. If not, then I have much less of one. How does it work in places that utilize them? Thanks for enlightening me! (Also, at my school, we didn't pass meds until semester 3, when we'd already passed Pharm, Patho, Fundamentals, and Assessment - in an ABSN program)
I just talked with a friend who is an lpn in ltc and asked that very question about who's licensed the med aid is under and she told me the med aid works on the other hall so the rn is responsible for them. Scarry because there is usually only 1 rn in the building (nocs)and oversees the entire place.
how many weeks of training do you get before you give your first medication to a patient in the clinical area? as i recall i was taught medication administration in the first half of my first semester of nursing school in the nursing lab. i was giving oral medications 8 weeks into my first semester of clinicals.
how many weeks of training before passing my first med? how about >2 years of prereqs a&p, drug calc, the 8 weeks of nursing school, half of my pharm class and an instructor literally on my backside drilling me with questions about the pathophys, pharmacodynamics, etc, etc.
and that was for only a very, very few meds. and neve in nursing school were we set 'free' to give meds unwitnessed. and i was operating under my ci's license, and the pt also had his own nurse.
lots of checks set up for me to pass my meds that i spent the previous day looking up and understanding.
so cmts and nursing students passing meds is not even comparable in the least.
The med aides here have to have special certifications that make them a med aide and they get paid based upon the job plus the fact that they had to take a course to be able to do the job. I think there are special considerations regarding what meds can be passed by them as well. I look at it as a way for them to take some of the duties off of the LVNs in the nursing home setting and allowing to have less LVNs and be able to pay each individual more because they dont have to pay full price for the med aides. I can see both sides though.
Yeah, Medical Aids are 1350 hour voc training similar to LPN, except they don't primiarily interface with the patients from my underrstanding: and are more like techs.
That is not a CNA by no means. CNA is a tough living that the average career may not even be 2 months, lol. The hospitals are raping those poor people financially and making them perform in unsafe ergonomic working conditions while not legally bound to OT pay for over 40 hours per week.
I'm surprised the nursing community puts up with it, since these people support nurses. Its a crying shame. But no, I would not want standard cna's doing to much more than they are doing now. Medical aides on the other hand should be well schooled on meds maybe better than lpns, since they look at duties more technically; where as Nurses have to look at so many issues when dealing with patients.
Yeah, Medical Aids are 1350 hour voc training similar to LPN, except they don't primiarily interface with the patients from my underrstanding: and are more like techs.
That is not a CNA by no means. CNA is a tough living that the average career may not even be 2 months, lol. The hospitals are raping those poor people financially and making them perform in unsafe ergonomic working conditions while not legally bound to OT pay for over 40 hours per week.
I'm surprised the nursing community puts up with it, since these people support nurses. Its a crying shame. But no, I would not want standard cna's doing to much more than they are doing now. Medical aides on the other hand should be well schooled on meds maybe better than lpns, since they look at duties more technically; where as Nurses have to look at so many issues when dealing with patients.
This may be so where you are at, but I just did a quick search for "medication aide" to see what a sample curriculum would be, and its 40 non-credit hours, $275.00 (includes tuition, book, cd rom and competency test), and runs: M/W/F 08/11/08 - 08/27/08 8:30 A - 4:00 P, all classroom instruction.
So how is that like an LPN again? my program is 3 full semesters, on site clinical experience every week once we finish Nursing Essentials, my credits are actual credits and can be used as the beginning of an RN program, runs 4 days a week for an entire year, pretty much all day plus homework and studying, oh and one single book costs me $275 not counting the workbook. My program is $4500 PLUS my books, of which the first semester alone costs me $800, not to mention my school specified scrubs/shoes/accessories.
I guess I really just don't see them as LPN'ish, but thats just me.
The idea of giving out the kind of thing that someone would be getting at home, like tylenol, I guess I can understand...but when it becomes something with a high likelyhood of side effects and possible miscalculating dosages, add in that you are giving out meds to a hundred people where as in the home its just that one or two that live there and it gets just a tad more complicated.
If it really WAS a tech position like surgical techs or x-ray techs or something else that was an actual degree/certification specifically in giving out meds and understanding the side effects... if it WAS comprable to an LPN in time and financial investment (and difficulty getting through) then maybe it would make more sense to me.
You know, nurses keep denigrating Medication Aides but they fail to realize that MANY states have them AND there is no evidence that having them has caused problems...
Many nurses are arguing out of fear, ignorance and other reasons. Try looking at facts.
When medication errors were considered by level of credential, RNs had an error rate of 34.6%, LPNs, had an error rate of 40.1% and CMT/As (Certified Medication Technicians/Aides) had 34.2% of the medications administered in error...
...The conclusion reached was: "This study provides some initial evidence to suggest that
CMT/As can be effectively used for routine medication administration.
The only people rallying against med aides are... nurses. The same nurses by the way that were insulted when doctor's didn't approve of nurse practitioners...
I know many good Med Aides and some bad ones. The same can be said for LPNs and RNs. In fact I have seen a few RN's who went beyond incompetence. Yet they made it through school AND passed the NCLEX. The argument that nurses are safer by mere fact of education is fallacious at best.
The nursing education does very little in preventing med errors every day. That pretty much says it all.
Specializes in med/surg, telemetry, IV therapy, mgmt.
I will get 'wound up' over this each and every time. The use of CMAs as a replacement for nurses is a shameful practice.
Keep in mind that CMAs always work under the supervision of a physician who is right there on the premises. Their situation is different from nurses. The doctor is their boss and has the right to use them to replace nurses if they choose. It is a private business matter.
No, Medical Assistants in Fl is 1350 hours, same as LPN Votech. Google MTI in Bradenton, FL (similar to many medical assistants votech reqts). What you found is required, IN ADDITION to medical assistent one year votech I'm sure.
Its not equivalent to LPN, but it darn sure a bit more than a 40 hour trained CNA wipin buns and bathing large people by themselves for meager pay.
And I was going from what others said and what made sense without spending an innordinate amount of time. But who knows, maybe its a CNA fatigue program: wipe a couple of buns, administer some drugs, ... so they don't need paid breaks!!
This may be so where you are at, but I just did a quick search for "medication aide" to see what a sample curriculum would be, and its 40 non-credit hours, $275.00 (includes tuition, book, cd rom and competency test), and runs: M/W/F 08/11/08 - 08/27/08 8:30 A - 4:00 P, all classroom instruction.
So how is that like an LPN again? my program is 3 full semesters, on site clinical experience every week once we finish Nursing Essentials, my credits are actual credits and can be used as the beginning of an RN program, runs 4 days a week for an entire year, pretty much all day plus homework and studying, oh and one single book costs me $275 not counting the workbook. My program is $4500 PLUS my books, of which the first semester alone costs me $800, not to mention my school specified scrubs/shoes/accessories.
I guess I really just don't see them as LPN'ish, but thats just me.
The idea of giving out the kind of thing that someone would be getting at home, like tylenol, I guess I can understand...but when it becomes something with a high likelyhood of side effects and possible miscalculating dosages, add in that you are giving out meds to a hundred people where as in the home its just that one or two that live there and it gets just a tad more complicated.
If it really WAS a tech position like surgical techs or x-ray techs or something else that was an actual degree/certification specifically in giving out meds and understanding the side effects... if it WAS comprable to an LPN in time and financial investment (and difficulty getting through) then maybe it would make more sense to me.
Keep in mind that CMAs always work under the supervision of a physician who is right there on the premises. Their situation is different from nurses. The doctor is their boss and has the right to use them to replace nurses if they choose. It is a private business matter.
Since when are Drs right there on the premises of the LTC? I'm confused...
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Who retains the responsibility and accountability for med errors? CNAs don't have a license, so whose is on the line if a mistake is made? I haven't heard of these in FL yet, but I've also never set foot in an LTC (we don't rotate there in school). Does the facility start putting one LPN on each shift who "oversees" passing of meds to 100 residents? I don't really believe in the nursing shortage, I feel it's more a shortage of people willing to work as nurses (or go to school to become nurses) given the current pay and staffing conditions. When RNs began starting IVs, MDs didn't retain the accountability for any malpractice, did they? If the nurse is held responsible and his/her license is on the line every time a CNA passes meds, then I have a problem with it. If not, then I have much less of one. How does it work in places that utilize them? Thanks for enlightening me! (Also, at my school, we didn't pass meds until semester 3, when we'd already passed Pharm, Patho, Fundamentals, and Assessment - in an ABSN program)