Clock out by 8am or get reprimanded!!!

Nurses Activism

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To all,

does anyone else get this at their job? I mean, for the most part depending on how your night/day went you would clock out right about on time or a little/waaay past it if you had a grueling shift. BUT!! what if now you receive a memo about all nurses, not just you must clock ou tor are ENCOURAGED to clock out at eight am/pm because accruable OT is too expensive and being busy that shift is not an excuse. TOP that with being told that having not complied with this matter you will get reprimanded. Hell, some nurses I have wokred with started clocking out at 8AM and going back to finish off charting and even report at times just so they wont get written up. Mind you we do have small forms that we can present to state why we are late clocking out etc which in turn has to be approved by the manager and supervisor, but with the staffing issues at our hospital of 3:1 AVERAGE IN ICU and even worse on the floors (we're not union) that has been recently brought forth our clock out times on average has been 30 minutes -1 hour from the set standard. Anyways, just wanted to pose that in the event the hospital fires or forces nurses to clock out on time secondary to an ultimatum is that illegal? this is for the state of NJ.

thanks all:bluecry1:

I think its time to start an organizing campaign with CNA.

To me working off the clock gives the hospital an opportunity to disavow your actions in the event of an adverse event leaving you swinging in the wind.

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Specializes in Med Surg, Tele, PH, CM.
there is a very simple term for this process--its called illegal.:nono:

unless you are salaried, you may not lift a finger off the clock. a quick call to your state labor board will make short work of this practice.:nurse:

had a nm try this 15 years ago. not only is she no longer a manager, she is no longer an rn.:D

from a management standpoint, the response will be that you are expected to perform necessary duties within your 8 hour shift, and if you need extra time, that is on you, and performed voluntarily in the interest of maintaining a good performance rating. there is an answer for everything. the only hospital that i ever worked in that did not have these petty little issues was one in which the don actually worked a shift on the floor once a month. that should be a rule....

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One of the great "irks" in nursing- darned if you do and darned if you don't.

If all employees take a stand- management has to address ot vs workload. But there are many employees who tiptoe around management, or don't want to rock the boat, or are just fearful.

It can sometimes be like a really dysfunctional relationship, can't it? Employees the enablers- management the abusers.

Take a stand. Life is too short, and our children shouldn't be dealing with this craziness just because we don't want to stand up for what is right.

We need to work these kinks out quickly, and get on with the business of taking care of people.

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Indentured servitude by any other name is still indentured servitude.

There are managers who will suck you dry at every opportunity and then claim poor performance when you are continually given overload. I think that this devaluation of people is a very overt form of bullying which cannot be tolerated.

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I only clock out when I am totally finished and leaving the floor, I don't care what management says or thinks, its illegal and I won't do it

What does it take for nurses to not act like scared bunny rabbits with administration? What are we recruiting into nursing? Why are you allowing administratrion to bully you and make yo work for free? This whole scenario, by the way, is why NURSES NEED TO UNIONIZE! YOU HAVE NO POWER WITHOUT A GROUP CONCERTED EFFORT, WHICH MEANS A UNION. DON'T TELL ME ABOUT NEW JERSEY BEING ANTI UNION. UNIONS WERE BORN IN THE NORTHEAST PART OF THIS COUNTRY AND LEAD THE WAY IN TERMS ON UNION MEMBERSHIP AND POWER.

Call NNOC, and get some union activity going. Reporting the hospital to the labor board IS FINE, but will only allow scapegoating by the hospital towards the nurses who reported them. Again, you have NO POWER WITHOUT UNION REPRESENTION!

JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

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Specializes in Home Care, Hospice, OB.
from a management standpoint, the response will be that you are expected to perform necessary duties within your 8 hour shift, and if you need extra time, that is on you, and performed voluntarily in the interest of maintaining a good performance rating. .

and from a mangement standpoint, it is necessary to provide staff with adequate coverage to meet all patient needs (and "wants") within those 8 or 12 hours!:nurse:

[and spare me any flames from managers and supervisors--i am one, also; but only hire intelligent, professional nurses, and treat them that way to the very best of my ability!!]:rolleyes:

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Thanks for everyones response, at least I know Im not alone with this. Just to make this a little clearer, I know there are some nurses out there who milk the clock and then some, I am against all that. My quarrel with the higher ups now mainly is due to them staffing us to the point where pretty much EVERYDAY most nurses clock out 30 minutes even 2 hours past the 8AM. I mean last time I worked they staffed ICU of 11 pts with 5 vents 4 NURSES.. 4!!... and guess who was the unlucky person to get 2 of the vented pt's and be the only one open for code/angio/admit? the 3 other nurses were on their 2nd/3rd night so there really wasnt much room to argue about switching up the assignment, plus we all had vents, so me having two pt's vented (one freshly vented that shift) wasnt too bad I thought since I only had 2. I didnt even realize I was the one open for code/admit till about 10pm after getting report,settling/assessing my pts etc. and with all this I get the late admit at 530 AM (thanks ER!!..LOL). with all that going on I was lucky I clocked out at 0915, and had all the paperwork filled out to make sure I got paid for the OT. but really, how does management expect us to do everything expected of us on time and as accurate as possible when they dont give us the means at times to do so? I even got a message from the manager that night because I forgot to finish entering my clinical circumstances on the PC for my new admit....go figure...

RnM

ps: Thanks for listening everyone....

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Specializes in Urgent Care.
From a management standpoint, the response will be that you are expected to perform necessary duties within your 8 hour shift, and if you need extra time, that is on you, and performed voluntarily in the interest of maintaining a good performance rating. There is an answer for everything. The only hospital that I ever worked in that did not have these petty little issues was one in which the DON actually worked a shift on the floor once a month. That should be a rule....

This will vary state to state.

Here in WA you must pay an employee for any overtime worked, even if not authorized, forbidden, whatever. The only way out of this is if you have locked the employee out of the workplace. Really, my dad and I own a buisiness and have fought L&I on this one before, we lost. But an employer can still fire you for working unathourized overtime, but has to pay the hours anyway.

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Specializes in ER, PCU, ICU.

I agree with every post here. If you work more than your designated shift allotment, you should be paid OT for it. If we get slammed during a shift, we'll stay over as long as necessary, but it's the exception, not the norm. If managers don't want to pay OT, there's a problem.

My question is though, why are so many people working past the clock? We have 59 ICU beds split in three units with a 2:1 ratio and 1 aid per unit, sometimes less. RNs do ALL primary care including baths, turns, empty foleys, chart VS, etc. The aids SOMETIMES help with turning, but they are there mostly to stock linens and be an extra set of hands when pts go awry.

Our hospital practices 24 hour care. If we don't get something done on our shift, the oncoming RN can do it and VERY few b*tch about it. Unless a pt is filthy stinky dirty, we'll skip a bath if we're that FAR behind. If we don't get to a PICC drsg change, oh well... the oncoming will get to it. Our actuities are as high as anywhere given that we're a level 1 trauma facility serving an overall population of about 1 million.

We do all manual paper charting save for the 4 hour rhythm strips which the monitor techs do. Even on a really busy night, we're rarely there past 0730. If we run a code or get an admit, we'll sometimes stay as late as 0800, but that's not often.

For those who are routinely working past the clock, what does your shift consist of that puts you so far behind? I'm not slamming anyone, I'm just really genuinely curious about this because where I'm at, it just doesn't happen as a matter of routine.

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Specializes in Home Care, Hospice, OB.
ii'm just really genuinely curious about this because where i'm at, it just doesn't happen as a matter of routine.

consider yourself very lucky. about 98% of end-of-shift ot is caused by poor staffing ratios combined with endless charting--which isn't done during the shift due to time constraints..:banghead:

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I experienced this game in a non-union hospital, when I was a "young" nurse. My manager told me the usual- it was my fault for getting out late. I asked to have staff development work with me on my time management skills. A wonderful nurse educator spent a shift with me. I put in two hours of OT that evening and my manager got off my back. I still got out late most evenings because the staffing was horrible and I quit within two years. The kicker was that the hospital did not pay me OT all the time I clocked out late. Years after I had left that hospital, I got a check for $2000 from them. Some one had reported them to the DOL and they had to pay a settlement to every nurse who had worked there! I learned an important lesson and have worked in union hosptials since then (22 years).

Management holds the nurses hostage because they can fire at will. Once nurses are represented, they have the security to take collective action.

The New York State Nurses Association represents NJ nurses- they have an agreement with NJ that gives nurses membership in both state associations.

http://www.nysna.org/union/organizing.htm

HPAE is also in NJ http://www.hpae.org/historyofhpae.htm

NJ regs for critical care:

8:43G-9.7 Critical care staff time and availability

(a) Nurse staffing shall be determined by the acuity of illness of the patients on the critical care unit.

(b) There shall always be at least one registered professional nurse for every three patients. There shall be the capability to increase nurse staffing to one nurse for every two patients or one nurse per patient based on acuity levels.

© There shall be a mechanism in place for the critical care service to have access to nutritional support services for advice on both enteral and parenteral nutritional techniques.

NJ Staffing Legislation: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2008/Bills/A2000/1531_I1.PDF

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OK I guess that I may be alone on this one but here goes... Just remember that their are two sides to every story but I am on the other side of the over time situation:saint:. You see, I am one of the people that get the overtime list and nasty e-mails from the corporate office when the nursing budget is over time.

If every nurse stays one or two hours overtime each night, do you know how many extra staff you could add to each shift with their overtime? :confused:

Sorry.. but Nurses need to hold the nurse that is signing off to you that they have done their job and they need to be ready to give you your shift report when you come in. I work with a lot of nurses that are very poor planners and they wait til the end of the shift to chart instead of doing it while they work. They bring in their breakfast and sit down to eat before they write the CNA's assignments. They are text mess their friends.. I can go on. :banghead:

While I work with some nurse that are wonderful, I also supervise some that are easy distracted:bugeyes:. They dont ask for help when they fall behide.

When I worked for an Nursing Agency, you were paid only for 8 hours and if you were not done, you didnt get paid. I was always done.

Come on, you know that you have worked with nurses that are just slow workers some even goofed off! Perhaps that environment is not for them.

I know that this may not be the popular thought, there is a method to the madness.

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