Hello all! I am very confused as to which path is best for entry to nursing. I have a bachelors in pre-med studies and have applied to a few second degree entry to nursing programs. I am choosing between an Accelerated BSN, an accelerated MSN, and an accelerated MSN-CNL entry to nursing program. Graduation from any of the three programs will qualify me to take the NCLEX and enter the nursing field as an RN. My ultimate goal is to get my DNP and work as a nurse practitioner. I am confused on the following:
1. Is it just as easy to move from a BSN (accelerated or traditional) to a DNP program??
2. Is it worthwhile to attain CNL certification if I intend to be an NP? I am concerned that by the time I feel experienced enough as an RN to act in a clinical nurse leader role I will also be ready to begin my DNP program, possibly never using the CNL in my career.
3. Will the clinical leadership aspects to the MSN-CNL program still be helpful in becoming a DNP, or will it essentially be a waste of two extra semesters and money.
4. Will the non CNL focused MSN be more useful in pursuing my DNP degree?
I can explain the programs more fully if anyone needs a better understanding! Please help I hope to hear from as many experienced nurses and students familiar with these roles as possible! Thank you!
Are you saying that in your experience the CNL certified RNs don't actively utilize those credentials and practice direct patient care roles the same as other nurses? I have come across other sources suggesting that the daily tasks of a CNL are much different than staff RN's in the respect that they focus on the leadership and improvement aspects of nursing, often overseeing or collaborating with staff RNs. That is how I began questioning the necessity of the CNL for my purposes.
That is the vision of the people pushing the CNL role and programs. However, v. few organizations are utilizing CNLs. As already noted, to some extent, the role is "a degree in search of a job." IMO, much of what the CNLs are supposed to be able to do is what I would expect any experienced, competent RN to be doing (without a graduate degree or special title). The only healthcare employer I'm aware of that has really, enthusiastically embraced the CNL concept is the VA system, which, last I knew, had committed to having a CNL on every unit in every hospital. Other than that, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of interest in the role. Certainly not in my area. Maybe others are having different experiences in other parts of the country.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
The only healthcare employer I'm aware of that has really, enthusiastically embraced the CNL concept is the VA system, which, last I knew, had committed to having a CNL on every unit in every hospital. Other than that, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of interest in the role. Certainly not in my area. Maybe others are having different experiences in other parts of the country.
I can only speak for one very large VA. I was just there working a couple shifts last week. Indeed all the units have CNL but I am unable to observe them doing anything differently than any other experienced RN. They serve as charge nurse, just like everyon else. They certainly are NOT focuosing on leadership (the seems to be PLENTY of that in the VA) and they do not oversee staff RNs.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I stated that because I keep seeing and hearing "By 2015, all university NP programs must be converted to DNP" or similar statements.
The people who told you that are either lying to you or badly informed themselves. The AACN SUGGESTED that advanced practice rolls be at the DNP by 2015. That's all they can do. Many universities have taken to oppertunity to cash in on it by offering the same APN education as before, but not getting to charge much mroe for it. However MANY colleges and universities not only didn't adopt the DNP, some are outspoken in their refusal.
As of now only CRNA will require a doctorat (DNP can't be required for CRNA as many CRNA programs are not based in schools of nursing) by 2025.
'It has been referred to by people I have spoken with in the medical community, and a few colleges I have considered have mentioned it as well. I assumed this was the direction in which education in the field would be moving.
A bunch of universities did jump on the DNP bandwagon. It seems to have slowed down considerably now.
Are you saying that in your experience the CNL certified RNs don't actively utilize those credentials and practice direct patient care roles the same as other nurses?
I have worked as a staff nurse in 4 states, a travler in a half dozen more states. I personaly have never seen an RN who had CNL do anything other that function as a regular staff RN.
I have come across other sources suggesting that the daily tasks of a CNL are much different than staff RN's in the respect that they focus on the leadership and improvement aspects of nursing, often overseeing or collaborating with staff RNs.
Maybe someplace they do. However as a long time staff nurse it seems that one thing we don't need more of is leadership, bei9ng overseen, or improvement. It seems to me that every hospital I have worked it is heavily staffed with people doing those things already and constantly short of bedside RNs. We already have PLENTY of chiefs, need more indians.
The CNL, (Clinical Nurse Leader) is a MSN. Once you graduate from a specific MSN curriculum that prepares you as a CNL, you can sit for the CNL boards. If you pass, you become a CNL.
In practice, you may start out at the bedside doing direct care of patients, however, with your advanced education, you are very well educated to step back and direct patient care, monitor patient outcomes, patient safety, etc. when You are ready.
You are also very well positioned to slip into a post masters certificate for a FNP or Acute Care NP. You already should have the 3 separate Pâ€'s (Advanced Pathophysiology, Advanced Pharmacology, and Advanced Physical Assessment) done from finishing your CNL MSN program.
I think the MSN CNL is a wonderful way to enter into practice if you already have a Bachelors degree. I have observed that you have less hoops to jump through to get into a post masters certificate program for a FNP than if you were to start into a FNP program from scratch.
You also have other options. For example; the University of San Francisco now has a DNP for CNL's. The Healthcare Systems Leadership DNPâ€.
More and more options are opening up all around the nation.
I would skip and CNL program. Its a degree looking for a job. We have them in my hospital and they have a title and EXACTLY the same staff RN job as their ADN and BSN peers.
You should probably look beyond your own backyard before you make sweeping statements of what all CNL's do.
What you describe is most certainly not the case where I am.
It's very easy to guess at what a degree is all about when you have not been educated in that area.
Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm.
While I don't think a CNL is a bad route to go... if you want to be a NP, become a NP. There are a boatload of programs available for non-nurses with a bachelors degree to earn their MSN as a NP and become a RN along the way. They usually take 3 years. Do it, get it done, and enter practice. Once you're working as a NP and earning an income, utilize tuition reimbursement and go back for a DNP later. Why waste 2 extra years getting a DNP when you could become a NP faster and do the DNP later? The DNP won't change your job role as a new NP.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
You should probably look beyond your own backyard before you make sweeping statements of what all CNL's do.
I am trying to figure out if you are being deliberately misleading, or simply lack reading comprehension skills.
It has to be one or the other as I clearly made no "sweeping statements" and was very careful to speak only for where I work and places I have personally worked and would be in a position to know.
I am not an idiot as your comment seems to indicate since only an idiot would make such sweeping statements when they are not in a position to know.
Thank you all for the feedback. After considering your opinions and a doing bit more research, I am leaning towards the MSN without the CNL components. It seems to be a better choice in terms of cost, time, and contribution to my overall goal which is to learn and grow as an RN and eventually move into the role of NP. I am not interested in the style of work outlined in a CNL. Although I understand the importance and necessity of leadership and actively improving outcomes, the experiences with patients and diagnostic tools utilized in nursing are what attracts me and what I will find exciting. It seems that the CNL would be less useful for me. In one scenario I wouldn't directly use those skills too much on the job; in the other scenario my role would reflect the CNL as it was designed but as a new nurse I would likely be dissatisfied with that. I still have a lingering option of the Accelerated BSN that is closer to home, but my mind is much more intrigued by the opportunities available with this masters program.
In addition, I the schools which I am choosing between all have fantastic reputations in their surrounding nursing communities and are known to really invest time in students to produce competent RN's as well as prepare students for more advanced education so I am sure I will do well in whichever direction the wind blows :)
Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm.
There's always the option of the Accelerated BSN to get experience as a RN. It will make you a better NP and allow you more direct experience time to figure out what exactly you want to do with a MSN.
There's always the option of the accelerated BSN to get experience as a RN. It will make you a better NP and allow you more direct experience time to figure out what exactly you want to do with a MSN.
The BSN and MSN options I am looking at all provide the same opportunity upon graduation which is preparation and eligibility to take the NCLEX and work as an RN. The MSN is not specialized in any particular field of nursing (excluding the CNL option)!
I am trying to figure out if you are being deliberately misleading, or simply lack reading comprehension skills.
It has to be one or the other as I clearly made no "sweeping statements" and was very careful to speak only for where I work and places I have personally worked and would be in a position to know.
I am not an idiot as your comment seems to indicate since only an idiot would make such sweeping statements when they are not in a position to know.
Your quote seems to stand for itself. Just because you take offense at someone's statement does NOT make it a wrong statement. I stand by what I said. However, I do not wish for you to be offended by it.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Your quote seems to stand for itself. Just because you take offense at someone's statement does NOT make it a wrong statement. I stand by what I said. However, I do not wish for you to be offended by it.
Yes, your statement was wrong. You made an entirly false statement. I made zero "sweeping statements" and only comments on situations I knew about and stated so.
If I did indeed say something that is actually as you described:
You should probably look beyond your own backyard before you make sweeping statements of what all CNL's do.
Then it would be a simple matter for you to quote what I said. If you can find something from me that attempts to describe what all CNL's do please, by all means quote it. You can stand by your false statement all you like, won't make it true.
I am not offended. But attributing things to me that I never said is hardly helpful to the discussion.
elkpark
14,633 Posts
That is the vision of the people pushing the CNL role and programs. However, v. few organizations are utilizing CNLs. As already noted, to some extent, the role is "a degree in search of a job." IMO, much of what the CNLs are supposed to be able to do is what I would expect any experienced, competent RN to be doing (without a graduate degree or special title). The only healthcare employer I'm aware of that has really, enthusiastically embraced the CNL concept is the VA system, which, last I knew, had committed to having a CNL on every unit in every hospital. Other than that, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of interest in the role. Certainly not in my area. Maybe others are having different experiences in other parts of the country.