some cheese with your WHINE?

Brownms46 · Jun 6, 2002

Originally posted by Anagray
However, some people NEED to complain in order to function accordingly. for some it releives stress and makes them feel like you hear them, that u understand them.
I think if someone is comfortable enough to come to you and express their concerns/whines, instead of going behind your back and saying " geez, what a b**ch this one is", it shows that u have a good team.
Not every complaint needs to get action from you, just listen and show u care.
jmo

I totally agree Anagray! :cool:

Brownms46 · Jun 6, 2002

Originally posted by hapeewendy
And if you don't like it...why don't you leave???

happeewendy...I have a lot of respect for you...but this post smacked of indifference.....and sounded like management. For one who says she doesn't like being in the position...you sound like you're in the right place to me IMHO!

If you had bothered to actually read my post before responding you would have seen that I am not talking about being overwhelmed , I am not saying that we dont have the right to complain, infact I have said that we all complain and in many of my posts I myself have complained.
what I AM saying and will continue to say is that people shouldnt complain and gripe about the potential heaviness of their workload.
you cant be overwhelmed by words on a friggin kardex, get out there , meet your damn patients and see how it goes,dont sit around and say things like "well team 2 has 3 independent ppl and no trache and a young person"
etc etc

how can you pre empt being overwhelmed?
by reading the kardex they see that four out of seven pts need to be washed so they start sighing heavily and comparing with the amount of care other teams require.
to me this is lazyness and BullSh*t
its not about complaining.
I never sound like management, I am however a patient advocate and if it means putting down some of my lazyass coworkers in the process sobeit
overwhelmed and underpaid are legit complaints
I dont think it is legit to start pissing and moaning about the care you are gonna hafta provide before you even give it.
and about your comment about why dont I leave, I dont leave because I love what I'm able to do for my patients where I am right now,

and in my HUMBLE opinion I shouldnt have to be the one to leave
the lazyasses who dont want to work should be the ones to leave because theyre so caught up in the potential hard work that it doesnt get done anyway!

"And if you don't like it...why don't you leave???:confused:"

This statment was in response to the statement below! It was NOT as suggestion that you leave! In fact it never entered my mind to make such a suggestion..

"doesnt it make you ponder why they continue to nurse in the first place?!?!?! "

we are all entitled to our opinion, but I think you glossed over a lot of the points I raised to respond quickly by saying that I dont understand and that my co workers are overwhelmed and that I sounded indifferent.
I mentioned the fact that we are all overworked and underpaid, and that nursing is damn hard work, and that we are all overwhelmed
I understand perfectly
But I am allowed to be annoyed when I see petty and childish complaining and griping on my unit.

happeewendy...I read every word of your post! In fact I read it several times....as I found it distrubing to read such a post from you ! THIS post I must say... I didn't bother to read...as it started out soooo nasty...I decided not to be poisoned by it! Your response to my post ...which by the way...contained no venom...was uncalled for...and waaaaay over the top! And this latest post... beats all the whinning I have heard in the last twenty years...hands down! The anger in your posts...was overwhelming to say the least! Enough said...from me to you...on any level!

Brownms46 · Jun 6, 2002

Originally posted by kids-r-fun

Brownms46...

I think this is the point Wendy is making, and it has nothing to do with Nurses being over worked and under paid, its about people, who happen to be nurses who make everyone else miserable because they are.

kids-r-fun...I realize that there are those who will complain about anything ...just to be saying something. But I think some people use complaining as a coping mechansim also. Or maybe they're just burnt out and don't realize it yet. From what I read...it seems to be saying...that nurses are supposed to work their butts off! I didn't agree! But then I recognized my own burn out...and did something about it. Now I only have to deal with bad situations for 13wks...and then I'm gone!

The rest is just a general response to the thread:

I have worked hard and have the cards, letters and gifts from those I worked with...to prove that I'm a hard worker...and go the extra mile....without complaining. Last nite I heard from a former co-worker....how was kind enough to tell me what another former co-worker had to say about me. She said she missed working with me...and that I was a good nurse and a joy to work with! I also had a nurse tell me about what the head of the GI dept had to say about me. He said...that HE WISHED I could stay there forever!!

I once took an assignment...and from the nite I arrived...I was totally pissed about my housing...and my recruiter who was as nasty as she could be! At that moment I decided...I wanted nothing more to do with that agency..and when my 13 weeks were up I was going elsewhere! NO ONE had a clue that I was upset... NO ONE. Not until the end of the assignment when I was asked to extend! Then the supervisor was asking me...why I hadn't said anything before now! The agency tried to make amends...and then decided to allow me to go with another agency...as the hospital was pissed at them for not straighting things out sooner! But I had held it all in for 13 weeks ...and it was all I could do..to hang in there...and say nothing! I felt the hospital was the client...and shouldn't know about my problems with the agency! And my recruiter had been a B from day one I arrived...and had made no effort to change...and when I tried to change recruiters the agency wouldn't do it! So it was their lost, and the hospital's lost....BUT I kept my mouth shut! I also kept my commitment...and never missed a day!

Where I am right now...I have been asked to stay on by almost everyone there! Even though I have been counting the days until I leave! Also have never missed a day...even though I have been through the ringer here! I rest my case...about who isn't a whinner. Just because I see a different view point...doesn't mean I'm in the same boat! :cool:

When I have something to say...I say it to the person...PERIOD! I don't just whine about it to others either! I have no trouble speaking up for myself to anyone

ICUBecky · Jun 6, 2002

brownie-

i feel that speaking up for yourself and whining are 2 completely different things.

whining..."my patient's are always messing up the bed." "i am way behind on my meds, because i had to take a road trip." "there are too many call lights going off." "i can't believe they gave me this assignment" "i have to run around too much, my feet hurt" "this pt does this...this pt does that" waah... waah.. waah. so what...they are not the only ones with these problems.

speaking up for yourself... (to the charge nurse or management) " i don't feel that i will be able to give this new admission the kind of care that he or she deserves, b/c _______________ (fill in the blank). or something to that matter.

when i am in charge, if a peer speaks up for her/himself, i am able to be more supportive. if they just imply that they can't take something (a new pt for example), through whining (not directly coming out and saying that they feel they aren't able to take a new pt.) it just irritates me. speaking up for oneself, i think, gets more results than whining. not just with me, but with my other "non-whining" peers and even management!!

your case also proves my point. you didn't complain to your peers about your housing, which is good, because what would they have done. they had no power to change that issue. however, at the end when you told one of the higher ups (supervisor/manangement) your problems, you got some results. and it sounds like you didn't whine, but you stood up for yourself. this is how i took your story. you can shoot me if i am wrong (well...not really, but you know what i mean!)

becky

Brownms46 · Jun 6, 2002

No Becky I didn't whine...,...but I'm me...and everyone deals with things differently. I truly believe that most nurses came into this field to make a difference. But I have watched nurses being beated down by the weight of having more and more pts added...along with more and more responsiblity. I just don't think nursing has to be as difficult as we sometimes allow it to be. I think many nurses maybe better at being advocates for their pts...than they are at being advocates for themselves!

What you're talking about Becky is being assertive...and many nurses sadly don't know how to even start in the direction of assertiveness. They complain to their peers many times...because they're afraid of authority figures, and they feel safe talking to those they work with. Some people are scared to rock the boat...others fear lost of their jobs.

I truly believe....that many times people use complaining as a way to deal with stress. As someone posted...they don't want or expect you to do anything...they just want to feel listened to.

And as one who has to listen to the constant complaining of pts...who you couldn't please if your life depended on it...I think nurses should be given the same courtesy! Many times we can't change a pts problems either...but we listen. We know they should be talking to their doc....but we also know that most pts are afraid of comforting them....so they give us an earful. And many times a nurse will go to the MD and say this or that...because they know the pt won't. In fact many times the pts will act like he doesn't have a clue as to what you're talking about when the Md asks him about the problem..:chuckle

I just think nurses...deserve someone to listen also and sometimes a "How can I help...makes all the difference in the world. :cool:

And nooo....not gonna shoot ya...yet..:chuckle

hapeewendy · Jun 6, 2002

I wasnt being nasty to anyone

including you brown

I dont know why everything I type on this particular topic is being misinterpreted

I am not whining

I am not saying anything other than the fact that I find it disheartening that ppl are so lazy and that they are talking about being so concerned about the potential of being overworked before it even happens....

why am I bothering with this?

I give up......

nothing I write here is full of venom......

nothing I say or write outside of here is full of venom either

I am a caring person, that was the intent of my original post

I find it a shame that patients are viewed as part of a horrible assignment

am I venomous because I believe that people shouldnt argue over which team is hardest before they even start to take care of their patients?

I havent knocked any of you ......

I dont understand this....

I really need some light shed as to why you believe I'm being hostile brown when I'm not...

my opinion was that you didnt understand the intention and meaning to my post

which you say you did

so thats fine......

I never said I was annoyed by you brownie

I said I was annoyed at some of my co workers who have been sitting around griping about the work they need to do instead of doing it....

many of you have offered some great coping mechanisms and advice and I thank you

and I really did not mean to sound like I was joining in on the whining....

my heart is just heavy

I guess thats the only way I can put it.......

from now on I will just let my co workers complain about the things they want to and do my own thing

I guess I was just looking for some support and/or understanding

I'm sorry

hapeewendy · Jun 6, 2002

with this , my final words on the subject

brownie it would be a shame for you to stop talking to me or writing reponses and giving me great advice based on what you thought was anger

I am not angry, I have never been angry at anyone on this board and I dont plan to anytime soon....

but thats your choice

I may ooze of frustration at times , but I am certainly not a whiner nor am I a hateful spiteful person

this last week has been brutal

and hearing people show angst against incredibly sick patients who depend on them for everything , makes me upset.

when you hear conversations like

"team three has a trache and an MRSA positive patients"

"yeah well team four has a psycho geriatric patient and a major wound packing"

"yeah well I have you all beat, team 2 had a code last night!!!"

this Is what I heared the other day when I started this post, its fine to talk about traches and psycho geriatrics and codes, but there are real ppl attached to all these things, and that point gets lost on a precious many ppl it seems.

that was my point ,

I am only filling in as the incharge/desk RN so its not like I am aiming towards management or anything, my incharge is a very physically ill person and she asked me to fill in, so I did.

doesnt make me anything other than a bedside nurse who loves her patients.

I shouldnt even be writing this , I dont want people to get even worse opinions about me than they may have now

cheers

Stargazer · Jun 6, 2002

Wendy, I think I speak for many people here when I say that I don't see anger or nastiness in your posts, just frustration and exhaustion.

Having just recently moved from a staff position to a temporary supervisory role, I think you are able to be much more empathetic to the folks who are complaining--you can hardly have forgotten already what it feels like to have a heavy assignment!-- and I have a feeling your more vocal colleagues are sensing that and trying to elicit feelings of guilt in you.

I'm in a similar position in my current job, having gone from a front-line staff member to a supervisory position---and the amount of protest which greets any policy or documentation change (usually in response to a governmental agency mandate, over which we have little-to-no-control) is astonishing. I am acutely aware of how any policy change I make will affect the nurses' workload, and do everything I can to minimize that impact--all for a job that, 95% of the time, is significantly less stressful than a standard bedside hospital nursing job.

There ARE difference between (A) someone who needs to vent because they're having a bad shift, and really needs an "attaboy" or other support to get through; (B) someone who is genuinely concerned about the safety of their pts or an unworkable assignment; and © someone who has turned chronic complaining into a full-contact sport.

As someone pointed out upthread, the last variety are the ones who never actually DO anything constructive about the very conditions they can't stop whining about, like joining a steering committee or attending staff meetings. Those are the ones that it's hard to feel sorry for, and I think Wendy is saying that those are the ones she's frustrated with.

I have to say, this

team three has a trache and an MRSA positive patients"
"yeah well team four has a psycho geriatric patient and a major wound packing"
"yeah well I have you all beat, team 2 had a code last night!!!"

made me giggle. I think you should pipe in with, "Oh, yeah? Well, back in 'ought-one, when I was on Team 2, we had TWO trachs, 4 MRSAs, a guy on 12 drips, and a 99-year-old on hourly enemas! Never got any of these namby-pamby "bathroom breaks" like you young-un's talk about. We had to walk miles from room to room uphill in the snow, with only cardboard boxes for shoes!"

Use your best little-old-lady voice. Maybe if they hear how silly they sound, they'll have the grace to be a little embarassed. :imbar

donmurray · Jun 7, 2002

Boxes for shoes? Luxury!

Wendy, Stargazer has the answer, use of humour can sweeten a bitter medicine. It can also tame the whingers, not wishing their behaviour being made fun of.

Jenny P · Jun 7, 2002

My goodness! This thread has taken some odd twists so far!

Wendy, I know you aren't in management, being a charge nurse puts you no where near in control of anything! It's a lot of headaches and hassles and putting up with the pizzing and moaning of the chronic complainers. If you are extremely lucky, when you work charge you can get your co-workers to do their jobs with only minimal complaints by looking them straight in the eyes and agreeing with them that yes, it is a tough assignment, but you thought that THEY were the only ones who could do such a good job with this particular assignment (and then give them a lighter assignment the next day). When I work charge I try to rotate the heavy assignments through the staff so that the same people aren't continually being dumped on. Dealing with the chronic complainers can wear you down, and I have also used humor to deal with these people, much like Stargazer suggested.

My other thought on this subject is that if your teams ARE really going on about (quote)

"team three has a trache and an MRSA positive patients"

"yeah well team four has a psycho geriatric patient and a major wound packing"

"yeah well I have you all beat, team 2 had a code last night!!!" (unquote); your co-workers and workplace are very bizarre indeed!

And Brownie, you usually don't complain or whine on this BB. I've never worked with you, so I can't say what you are like in real life; but in reading back through your first post, it doesn't sound like your normal response and I can understand why Wendy thought you hadn't read her post all of the way through.

**SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN** · Jun 7, 2002

originally posted by ninaldunn
hmmm... i used to be an emt and every time i stepped into the er all i ever heard was whining. i thought - yew - i would never want to be a nurse!

but i am a nurse and i love my job. where i work, you can tell cheese whine verses drowning in whine. well, here in wisconsin we love cheese. but when someone is drowning we help - why - because tomorrow i may be the one drowning.

teamwork helps prevent burnout.

administration is so appreciated when they help the floor. no one expects you to give a bath - everyone knows you have your own work too. but when you're on the skin committee it's nice for you to change a dressing now and then.

if you have to interview a patient in the morning, you can offer to give her meds while you're in there - maybe her roommate too. it's just one patient out of 20 or 30 or 40 but it's appreciated.

even really petty stuff like moving chairs or beds or passing/picking up trays now and then. not the whole floor - but 4 would be nice.

hapeewendy, i think that these suggestions might assist you in feeling like you still can accomplish something for the patients by doing some bedside care while helping-out the staff a little...this might be like killing two birds with one stone...no?

i'm not all suggesting that you have no right to vent about the rampant whining going on about potential pt assignments...but perhaps the staff whines about the potential work load due to personal past experience...people generally have a pretty good idea of what their shift will be like...especially if it occurs often enough. i'm not at your hospital facility & don't know how your teams work, but from my own experience, i generally know by report just how my night's going to go prior to starting. i, myself, find having a hard assignment to be challenging, but i find that most nurses are uncomfortable with having them...for various reasons...those that you've stated & others that brownie has stated.

hapeewendy, please don't be upset with the posters here if they all don't agree with you or missed your original premise. continue to post & perhaps your point will be better taken. besides, there will always be those nurses that will never agree with anything that any supervisor or manager has to say because they're often viewed as being management, the enemy (you know...the us vs. them mentality :rolleyes: ). i think that someone had mentioned that there are some nurses who whine/complain but never attain staff meeting for various reasons like not wanting to be punished or loose their jobs...well, why not jot-down those legitimate complaints & bring them-up at those meetings. you can state that: as on consensus, your staff feel_________(fill-in the blanks). just keep your line of communication open to your staff & perhaps you'll be able to assist them with some of the above suggestions & maybe some of the griping will slow down or stop...just maybe.

i would however, let it be known that constant whining :nono: isn't good for work environment morale, patients, or their families; & that continued negative, non-constructive whining won't be tolerated!!!

:wink2: tell them to come to allnurses.com or any other bbs if they want to vent, whine, or complain...like so many of us do!!!

hapeewendy · Jun 7, 2002

nursie, I am not upset that people disagree with me, I dont post here to get hurrahs and you go girls , I post here to bring up subjects for discussion.

what upsets me is when ppl get personal, tell me that My posts are angry and venomous, or that I'm on some kind of high horse, or that they are not going to respond to me or write to me anymore because I seem hostile or bitter

how these ppl can read so much into a post is beyond me, but even after I clarify that I wasnt angry I still get nowhere.

I DO help out on the floor, the past week I've had patients of my own , and my co workers all appreciate the fact that I am extremely hard working, And I know that we are all busy and overworked, what my point was is that some ppl are losing perspective of the fact that the tasks they complain about having to do are being done for a person!

I appreciate that we all have different experiences and opinions

that is why I post here

but to suggest that my opinion is wrong because I'm a management type, or havent been nursing long enough to feel burnt out just isnt appropriate.

we all have our beliefs and I'm no different

tell me you disagree with me, make your points

but dont get personal and start judging me

nursie - you always seem to see sides of the stories not seen by others, I appreciate that, and you offer constructive advice and pointers, as did the majority of posters on here

believe me , I dont post here so that I can change the opinions of everyone to align with my own