changing gears at 46 to County Jail?

cindyrn1 · May 22, 2004

Well you seem to be quite aware of some of the tricks of the trade already! ha ha. When I did Forensic Psych nursing, the patients (we had to call them patients because they were guilty by reason of insanity) would do whatever they could to go to the hospital to get pain medication, surgery or have tests done. They would fake everything they could to get what they wanted. There was nothing we could do to stop their actions, but we did start doing more treatment in the facility, hold them back from doing things they enjoy (because they were soooooooo sick) like smoking etc. That stopped a lot of the faking. But with Borderline personalities, they didn't care what they had to do to get what they wanted. But after they spent days at the hospital getting all those great drugs, they would come back to me with nothing but a Tylenol order! I have found in the Prison system that seizures are a biggy with the women. They fake them, have an emergency called, go to the ER and nothing is wrong with them. Well you and I both know what goes on in a true seizure......so the Prison system has stopped making such a Huge ordeal out of a possible seizure and have learned to deal with them in the facility and the fakers have literally stopped having seizures now. As you can tell, politics are big in the corrections system, but if you are doing what you are suppose to be doing as the nurse, that is all that matters. I simply stay out of the political stuff and find something more to focus on. I just turned 40 years old and know now that I am never going to change the world or be able to make everyone better. I have accepted the fact that I am only here to make sure the IM's meds are correct and that they will be able to function in society when they are released. Some of them have been in trouble for years and I can't change them in a few months. So, I do the best that I can and leave it at that. You have a big job. But the jail is very fortunate to have you. It's hard to find a nurse that will work the county jails. We in the Prison system Thank you for doing what you do! Take care and have a great weekend.

jailDON · May 23, 2004

Because you are the manager of the unit and not a nurse assigned to accomplishing a peice of the puzzle (i.e. sick call) I am trying to outline the most basic services that your clinic should provide.

It sounds like you are in a jail, not a prison. Offering the physical before the 14th day must be done and documented whether the patient allows the physical or refuses. Even the healthy ones need to be offered STD testing at the time of physical according to NCCHC standards.

Intake screening must be done as soon as the inmate is booked.

Chronic care patients should see the doctor within 30 days of booking and at least every 90 days after that.

I'm not saying I have it all figured out!! We are constantly fighting the "squeekiest wheel gets the oil" situation. Sometimes the nurses are giving healthy drug-seekers all the attention when there is a 79-year-old sitting quietly with uncontrolled hypertension and diabetes.

nurseT · May 23, 2004

jaildon: Yes I'm in a county jail. Iam told that there is a difference in some rules to healthcare requirements between prison and a county jail, but I'm new so I don't know what the difference is. I have been searching but probly in the wrong area since I'm coming up empty handed. The worst thing about this job is not the nursing but the environment. I feel intimidated by the commander who insists on treating me like one of his hourly employees. He makes me clock in even though I'm salary and insisted I be there 8hrs because if I left when my job was done it would cause the secretaries and the CO's alot of anxiety since they can't leave. So it takes about 4-5 hrs to complete my tasks and I'm stuck in the jail for the next 3-4 hrs with nothing to do. The commander has lockdown every day from 11a-1p and the CO's will not let me see IMs during that time because it's the CO's quiet time / lunch time. So I have to go in early to get sick call done and stock the med cart before 11a. I can get all my paperwork done during lockdown, but there just isn't enough to keep me busy. It seems almost like a nursing home where the cna's run everything but in this case it's the CO's. Maybe I'm just feeling sorry for myself, but I don't even think it's legal to have an exempt/salary employee and also treat them like hourly. I do not get OT or Comp time and no compensation for being on call 24/7. Any county jail nurses out there and what's it like for you. I spoke with another county nures who only visits her jail 1xwk and is on call the rest of the time.

cindyrn1 · May 24, 2004

Who is your immediate supervisor? Who hired you? If you are salary, then why should you have to clock in? Sounds like you are being harassed by your co-workers. If you work over 40 hours then that's overtime.......federal law. And since you are salary, you can leave when you want to! I would be doing some talking to someone and I would do it really soon.

nurseT · May 24, 2004

The sherriff is my immediate supervisor, he was in the room when the commander told me I must clock in and work 40 hrs because it would cause resentment with the secretaries and the CO's. Sherriff and commander came into my office the first day I was there and started out by saying "let's get a few things straight right off the bat". I am the only nurse and have no coworkers. I'm in the process of checking out if what they're doing to me is legal. It's my understanding that an exempt employee is not to be treated as an hourly employee or they would lose the exempt status on me. I've been checking HR sites as well as the dept of labor but it could be that they may get away with it. I called the nurse who was there before me and she said "that's why I quit" she may take them to court but is still investigating with a labor atty. I may just wait and see what happens with her case. I'm sure it will affect me. I guess it all started when the other employees who are not professional became jealous and thought the grass was greener on the other side of the fence. The real problem, the way I see it, is the commander doesn't have enough balls to tell the other employees if they want a management position then go back to school. I would really like to end the problem. I guess this thread has quickly turned into another issue. Sorry. I look forward to hearing from anyone as like I said, I have no coworkers. Thanks :uhoh3:

jailDON · May 25, 2004

Ok, I'm getting a clearer picture. You are in a very SMALL jail.......how many inmates are you responsible for? You are medicating and doing everything. How do your inmates get their HS meds? Who medicates on the weekends?

I'm suspecting it is trained officers?

Maybe I would start with a job description. Do you have one?

Who supervises you? The jail commander should not have the ability to judge your nursing care. He's not qualified.

I don't clock in but I work at least 40-50 hours/week AND I'm on call 24/7.

Can you get comp time?

You aren't being treated like the manager of a department at all. I ran a small-scale department of only 3 employees and now I have 20 employees but the responsibilities are the same and you deserve the same respect.

I would demand it.

nurseT · May 26, 2004

Small county jail, just under 200 inmates. Only about 25 are on meds. Most only take the occasional tylenol or IB. The officers pass meds QID. If I passed the meds all the inmates would suddenly be sick. I did not get a job description. I don't think they know what one is!

mattsmom81 · May 26, 2004

Wow, sounds like you are being bullied and are kind of on your own with it all to boot.

It's also frustrating to work with jealous coworkers who want to dictate your job to you.

You will have to decide whether this is worth it for you or not, sounds like you will have to be very assertive or you will get run over here.

I have no jail experience but I can sense something of what you're feeling and wish you luck.

Best wishes.

jailDON · May 27, 2004

The jail I mentioned in which I had 3 employees, there were 120 inmates. You need more help really with 200 inmates. It's acceptable for "health-trained officers" to perform some duties such as Intake screenings and give meds if they have appropriate training.

I wrote my own job description once! Everyone must have a job description.

I agree with the last writer who said you are going to have to be assertive or they will run over you. I suggest communicating with written memos and attending meetings as a department head. Once, I was asked to leave a meeting in which I belonged and I refused and stayed!! You have a tough road ahead but you will be a stronger person because of it. You will make your jail safer for your community.

nurseT · May 27, 2004

update: Last night I called the county commissioner and left a messege. He called me back. I told him I was a trained medical professional and new the difference between an hourly employee and an exempt employee, and then I told hime my story about how they are treating me like an hourly employee. I was simply assertive and not aggressive or accusatory at all. I simply wanted clarification as to how I was to be treated as a professional exempt employee. He said that "No, they cannot tell me to clock in nor can they insist I stay 8hrs for the purposes of decreasing anxiety for the nonprofessional employees". " Esp since I am on call 24/7 without compensation and the fact that my education requires independant judgement, I should be able to decide when my work was done and just leave". He said he was going to bring the issue to the commissioner's hearing that they hold every monday and clarify and that he would also call the sherriff and make sure they understood how to treat an exempt employee. But in the meantime I was to try to get the sherriff alone without his bulldog the commander and clarify the issue and see what he says. I tried to get a chance to talk to him today but he cut out at 1030 am, imagine that. So when I left today it was about 45 min. short of the 8hrs and all the officers were making the usual rude remarks " God I wish I could go home, that's not fair". I turned around and said " Well go to college and learn how to do something, maybe you can have my job". I guess tommorrow I'll find out just how much trouble I'm in for not letting them beat me up. I have never been confrontational in my life, but the older I get, the less tolerant I am. And I am not invited to the meetings either. But I still stay on top of all the reports that should be turned in anyway. They probably through them away. I did tell the medical director today during his visit for sick call and he thought what they were doing to me was atrocious. He also plans on calling the sherriff after I've had a chance to talk to him myself, and he wants me to tell him how the conversation goes so he can plan how he will approach the sherriff. He said he was really tired of them trying to railroad the medical staff. So hopefully I really do have some help, we'll see. I'll let you know what happens.

mattsmom81 · May 27, 2004

Good for you NurseT!! Sounds like you've got what it takes to make this into a decent job for you and hope your persistence pays off for you...getting people in high places involved and seeing your POV is always a good move.

Love the idea of creating your own job description! :)

Your posts remind me a lot of my sister..who is very kind and easygoing but when enough is enough nobody pushes her around. You go girl!

Let us know how things go...we're pullin' for ya!

jailDON · May 27, 2004

Great job....you have some good people behind you. Keep the medical director involved. He can sign your job description. :)

I've learned that respect starts at the top and trickles down. Officers that are disrespectful to nurses are allowed to be that way. They have no idea what it is like to be on call 24/7.