changing gears at 46 to County Jail?

nurseT · May 30, 2004

update: This is going to take a little time. I did get to talk to the sheriff. I was going to hold off but he approaches me and says,"Are you sure there's nothing else you need to talk about. I'm beginning to wonder if they've got me bugged. So I did tell him I was uncomfortable with the way he and the commander had marched in and told me what they expected, the 40hrs, the clocking in and the purpose of avoiding anxiety for the other staff. And I siad you shouldn't treat me like an hourly employee if I'm exempt. Otherwise make me an hourly employee. All he kept coming back with was, "Don't you want to work 40hrs?, and I can't make you hourly, you're a professional,and The other nurse we had took advantage of us" and on and on. He just doesn't get it and I doubt if he's suddenly going to have a revelation. I think they think everyone is a criminal and should be monitored. So I made my feelings clear, I won't waste any more time trying to convince them of labor laws. The only thing he did agree to do was try to get the medical dept a private fax in my office and let me have an let me have equall time back if I worked overtime. And he wants me to record my time and give that to the jail matron so if the other girls see me leaving they can't upset everybody. The matron will be able to look at my time and see if I have it coming. They acted like they were doing me a big favor. Well I'm not going to do that, they can call up my time on the computer if they want. I don't know where all this will lead. This will be a huge challenge. I've never seen so much hatred for a medical dept. I am going to call the Dr today and let him know how my conversation went with the sheriff. Will keep you updated. Thanks! :uhoh3:

mattsmom81 · May 30, 2004

update: This is going to take a little time. I did get to talk to the sheriff. I was going to hold off but he approaches me and says,"Are you sure there's nothing else you need to talk about. I'm beginning to wonder if they've got me bugged. So I did tell him I was uncomfortable with the way he and the commander had marched in and told me what they expected, the 40hrs, the clocking in and the purpose of avoiding anxiety for the other staff. And I siad you shouldn't treat me like an hourly employee if I'm exempt. Otherwise make me an hourly employee. All he kept coming back with was, "Don't you want to work 40hrs?, and I can't make you hourly, you're a professional,and The other nurse we had took advantage of us" and on and on. He just doesn't get it and I doubt if he's suddenly going to have a revelation. I think they think everyone is a criminal and should be monitored. So I made my feelings clear, I won't waste any more time trying to convince them of labor laws. The only thing he did agree to do was try to get the medical dept a private fax in my office and let me have an let me have equall time back if I worked overtime. And he wants me to record my time and give that to the jail matron so if the other girls see me leaving they can't upset everybody. The matron will be able to look at my time and see if I have it coming. They acted like they were doing me a big favor. Well I'm not going to do that, they can call up my time on the computer if they want. I don't know where all this will lead. This will be a huge challenge. I've never seen so much hatred for a medical dept. I am going to call the Dr today and let him know how my conversation went with the sheriff. Will keep you updated. Thanks!

Uggh. How aggravating. Can you go at it with the angle YOU are not his or his staff's dept and things are different...and you and the doc are your own dept, etc.. so your business is not the busines of the clerical /jail matron and staff? They need to respect your oncall duties.

I did some agency work in a day spa for the very rich once and the spa staff were also very jealous and controlling towards the nurse...it wasn't fun. they had no idea what I was doing but were jealous I made more $$ than them and thats where it was coming from. Very hostile conditions.

My job right now I am working with very unprofessional people who are also very critical and backstabbing...its a tough atmosphere. I try to go in and do my job but the negativity and 'out to get ya' attitude is prevalent.

Good luck to you and we're pulling for ya.

jailDON · May 30, 2004

"I'm beginning to wonder if they've got me bugged."

It's very possible. At my jail, every call that lasts over 3 minutes is recorded. Listening to the recordings is done randomly and only a small percentage is monitored UNLESS they suspect something or are out to get you. Once at my facility they caught a nurse having a relationship with a former inmate/felon that returned frequently. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they are listening to you. Over the years there are times when I have had to go to my car and talk on my cell phone rather than use the jail phone. It's a weird feeling when you have to do that.

Their concerns are really ridiculous. You are your own department as Mattsmom suggested and the doctor could be the one that determines what hours you work. Which of you is considered the Health Services Administrator? In my facility it's an RN with that title and he is the supervisor over the MD, monitors contract compliance and ACA/NCCHC compliance.

nurseT · May 31, 2004

update: I called the Dr yesterday to tell him how my conversation went with the sheriff. We decided if he had a talk with the sheriff that the sheriff wasn't going to suddenly have a revelation either. So, I've been researching the dept of labor web site. Some of the answers to the frequently asked questions start out by saying, "unless you are working in the public sector", and I have not been able to find labor laws that specifically adress the public sector. I want to locate that information before I call the commissioner back.Anybody know of this information?

jailDON · Jun 1, 2004

What state are you in? I think the laws are different state by state but I could be wrong.

Dixiedi · Jun 1, 2004

I've been in corrections since 1996. Went to the interview solely out of curiosity. They gave me a ton of backround check stuff to fill out, then said, "If you want the job, fill this out and send it in to the Sheifff's dept," Been at it ever since, and would reccommend to anyone who is fed up with hospital nursing. You get a little bit of everything, but not as much of the "customer service" garbage you get in hospital nursing. You actually get to treat patients for their problems, and you can really have an impact with helping to diagnose and educate patients. There is a lot of bogus stuff, where inmates claim certain Sx because they know they will get sent to medical, but there are also thoses cases where you discover an undiagnosed illness and actually get to do some good. The doctors. at least where I work, are more prone to view you as a peer, and listen to your input. You usually have a more independent practice than you would in other settings, due to standing orders, etc..that allow the nurse to order meds under specific parameters. Would highly reccomend this specialty to nurses that have enough experience in other settings to make judgements based on a patient's presenting Sx.
Look out, if they tell you that you"re their favorite nurse. That probably means that you have broken some rules somewhere. As Aurora said, be firm, fair, and consistant and you won't have any problems.
Would recommend at least 1-2 yrs med-surg or any other hospital specialty before trying corrections. However, don't expect a jail or prison to meet JAACHO standards. The certification for these institutions are under an entirely different system. The main thing to remember is does the Tx rendered live up to community standards. Always remember that safety standard of the institution take precedence over medical concerns(excluding emergency Tx). In other words, if a pt. is scheduled for clinic and they have a court scheduled for that time slot, the court appearance is paramount.
If you are able to be independent within your prescribed standards of practice, then I would think you are a prime candidate for the job. Being independent in your home health care practice would be a BIG plus. Emphasize it. Don't be afraid to negotiate for pay. THere is a shortage of nurses right now, and esspecially in corections, so don't forget that you have a valuable commodity and should be paid accordingly.
Good Luck!!!

I worked the system in Fla for a while. I might add...

Never give an ointment of any kind to be carried back to the cell.
They are all innocent, don't even bother discussing it.
If you are in an area of multi-lingual folks, expect them to forget English as soon as that door closes behind them. Hope you speak the most common language after English!
If you work "receiving" expect to find lots of untreated chronic problems. They probably haven't been treated since the last time they were in custody.
Never allow yourself to be in a room alone with an inmate. A guard/officer will be there even when you are examining your pt.
Get used to having to wait for doors to be opened for you from the control room and you must wait for the first door to close completely before they second door will be opened.
You can be searched at any time. Get used to it.

There is a lot of "stuff" so peculiar in the system it's just impossible to think of them all.

jailDON · Jun 2, 2004

Dixiedi - all true. You didn't comment on the bugging issue. Did they record phone calls in the institution you worked in?

NurseT - on the labor laws....The only thing I can find out is that salaried people in my state are expected to work 40 hours IF they don't do call. In your case, doing call, a shorter work day helps make up for the inconvenience of being awakened in the middle of the night. At a local hospital the nurses don't get paid for call at all unless they have to go in THEN they are paid overtime.

nurseT · Jun 9, 2004

:chuckle update: The commisioners had their meeting and the exempt subject came up. I don't know what happened but the commander came in my office and was really mad. He said I should never go above his head again, that there was a policy stating that that was wrong and people get fired for less. I again explained to him that telling me I must clock in and be there for 40 hrs for the purpose of satisfying other employees was wrong. That if he was going to treat me like an hourly employee the county would lose my exemption. He still doesn,t get it. He doesn't think that the Dr. should get paid if he's not there 40 hrs either. I still don't know what to do. Now I think I've done everything just short of complaining to the dept of labor. I really like my job and most of the other employees. The commander offered me this, " If you want to take your lunch at the end of your shift, I don't have a problem with that but you'll have to call back an hour later to have one of the booking officers clock you out". Now if he was really concerned about the officer's anxiety over me leaving befor they do, what do you suppose will happen when I do that? I'm beginning to think that maybe it's not the employees but him that has all the problem with the medical dept. Boy, I hate to call the commissioner again to see what was said, but I'm considering it. What do you think? :uhoh21:

Aurora · Jun 10, 2004

Can you at least tell us what state this jail is in? I am looking for another correctional job and I don't want to wind up in a state where the jail guards are as stupid as the ones you deal with. They're always pretty dumb, but geeeez!

nurseT · Jun 11, 2004

update: Actually I'm afreaid to tell which state, just in case. It's not the state. Now that I've had a few more conversations with the commander, I believe it's he who has a problem with medical personnel and not the other employees as he initially said. Yesterday he took the afternoon off to lift weights. I guess that would definitley be more important than me taking the afternoon off to go shopping. He's just a shithead. :angryfire I'd like to take my time and see what I can do internally before calling the dept of labor. But at least he knows he can't pick on me. 2 neighboring county jail nurses and myself are trying to form a local jail nurses assoc. to share information and improve medical care, so I've been working on that too. By the way, they say they don't have to clock in. :rolleyes:

jailDON · Jun 12, 2004

Sounds like he jealous maybe and doesn't understand that there is a lot of responsibility that goes along with your profession. Great move to network with other nurses in your area.

FROGGYLEGS, LPN · Jun 12, 2004

The prison I was a nurse at recorded ALL calls regardless of length. They can also listen in on you in just about any area by way of the intercom system. All they have to do is key up the number in central and they had it fixed to where it doesn't "ring" when they do it.

They listen to calls randomly. I believe there is a percentage of calls they are required to listen to; both staff and inmate calls. My husband is a captain at the facility and listening to the tapes is part of his duties. They can listen to any calls randomly, but they also have them broken down into who/when/where type categories so they can listen to the conversations of specific persons if they are suspicious. They get a lot of their information that way and there have been many staff members fired and inmates disciplined over that information. They keep the calls saved on discs and they keep them for a long time.

You really have to watch what you say in a prison. You can never tell when they are listening to you.