I have been hearing anecdotal information about this happening for months now but these are the first positive test confirmations that I have seen confirming that this is indeed possible.
Dr. Debra Parsons, a pediatrician at Kid Care West in Cross Lanes, said both she and her son came down with identical flu-like symptoms in August.
... a more specific follow-up "sub-typing" test at the state lab confirmed she had H1N1.
Parsons and her son recovered from the symptoms but in October they struck again and were much worse, she said. Both had body aches, fever, chills, wheezing, and shortness of breath.
This time Parsons swabbed both herself and her son, and both tests came back positive for Influenza A. She said she pushed for further testing to determine the strain, and the lab ran an immunofluorescence test on the specimens. They again tested positive for H1N1, she said.
Parsons' second swab was sent to the state lab Wednesday for even further testing and results should be returned in a couple of days or sent to the Centers for Disease Control for follow-up tests, she said.
When the initial test came back positive again, Parsons said she also contacted the CDC to see if it's possible for someone to contact the swine flu twice.
She said officials at the CDC told her Saturday that it is possible.
You are talking about being exposed twice and getting sick twice...vaccination is a form of exposure and is pertinent to the discussion.
True enough. These are two related topics then.
Usually getting sick means that you don't catch something again, however, repeated exposure with a high enough viral load when you only have a weak antibody response means that you could get sick again. And, perhaps the viral strain is different enough that your not so great antibody response isn't going to be enough to protect you entirely. This may have happened in the pediatrician's case, for example.
You are concerned that vaccination will not be effective at preventing infection. It might not be completely effective in all cases, but for most people, it usually is enough, though there are always exceptions to everything.
No flu vax including the seasonal is 100% effective, and no one ever claimed it was the Holy Grail. Vaccines are always chasing a moving target because influenza viruses mutate quickly. However, with antibodies, while complete protection from morbidity might not be entirely possible for some people, prevention of mortality is far more
likely, and for that reason alone, the vax is well worth it especially for pregnant women, and kids.
For the majority of people, the vax is likely to prevent flu given enough time to develop peak antibodies before being exposed to the virus. After the vax, as per Dr. Niman of Recombinomics, "you might be able to detect antibodies in 8-10 days, but maximum response will take about 3 weeks." You are still at risk from an infection
shortly after vaccination, and as per Niman, vaccination "might make the infection worse initially because the immune system is battling the vaccine, and could be more easily overwhelmed by a new infection. Full protection is defined by peak antibody levels."
A major reason for vaccinating as many people as quickly as possible is to help slow down, and then eventually halt the pandemic with herd immunity. The pandemic is going to continue until there are no more susceptible hosts. Herd immunity is going to happen eventually either by enough of us getting sick and recovering or by vaccination.
And, this balancing act, is happening all while the virus is trying to escape from the vaccine which of course, it will eventually succeed in doing.
A different more up to date form of this swine flu strain will then have to be included into the seasonal vaccine for next year along with whatever seasonal influenza is showing up this year (almost none so far but it's early yet).
In healthy individuals, the first encounter with a virus leads to a primary antibody response. When an infection occurs with the same or a similar virus, a rapid antibody response occurs that is called the secondary antibody response. Antibodies are critical for preventing many viral infections, including influenza. But reinfection may occur if we encounter the same virus before the primary response is complete.
Could reinfection also occur after immunization with influenza vaccine? Yes, if the immunized individual encounters the virus before the primary antibody response matures, which occurs in 3-4 weeks. This is more likely to occur during pandemic influenza when circulation of the virus is more extensive than in non-pandemic years.
I hadn't seen this thread earlier, and appreciate its appearance now, as I'm someone who had negative tests for H1N1 in the first 48 hours of my 2 illnesses with flu-like symptoms at the end of August '09 and in mid Oct.'09.
When the CDC came out with a statement saying that rhinovirus was around at those times, I figured that one of those infections could have been that.
Since viral tests are expensive, and antibody testing even more expensive, that takes priority in decision making regarding accurate diagnosing of this and many other infections. If we had Federally subsidized central labs that specialized in testing of flu antibodies, that would be cost effective; and with companies that deliver specimens within hours, to locations in the USA, it's certainly doable. It would also provide more and new jobs.....
Once the Reform of Health Care bill/program has hit its stride, that enhanced availability and lower cost of testing would be admirable goals, especially since the prediction of waves of the same infections can be accurately predicted, now. That is all the more reason for the bill's passage. It will save lives at many levels of health care! Pleasecall or send emails to your Senators supporting immediate passage of the (less than perfect) bill, without religious restrictions (abortion issues), everyone!
The United States of America supposedly doesn't mix religion with state issues, according to established Federal law. The fact that a Senator has blatantly ignored that, in return for a promise that his state's health care will be paid by all the other states, makes me break protocol by raising the issue here, off topic. Sorry for that, and I hope it will give rise to another thread, or that no discussion further about that will occur here, in this vein. :offtopic:
Best wishes to everyone for a healthy, happy New Year! :bell:
To the Editor: Since March 2009, influenza A pandemic (H1N1) 2009 has spread worldwide (1), and in South America, Chile was 1 of the countries most affected by the pandemic, with 21.4 cases among every 1,000 persons. Treatment guidelines in Chile recommended antiviral drug treatment with oseltamivir or zanamivir for 5 days for all patients with confirmed or suspected virus subtype H1N1 infection (2). In persons with seasonal influenza, specific antibody responses reach peak titers by 4 weeks after infection and confer protection against the infecting strain and closely related strains (3). Reinfection is rarely seen in nonpandemic influenza A. We report on 3 patients with confirmed influenza A pandemic (H1N1) 2009 reinfection after successful treatment with oseltamivir.
Shedding of seasonal influenza A virus ceases within 5–7 days during natural infection and during infections treated with neuraminidase inhibitors (4). Although clearing of virus after the first infection was not documented in the 3 patients described here, it is unlikely that virus persisted between the 2 episodes of influenza since each of the patients fully recovered after specific antiviral drug treatment. However, we cannot rule out that patient 2 may have never cleared the virus due to her immune suppression.
As described by mathematical modeling (5), the 3 patients described were susceptible to reinfection with pandemic (H1N1) 2009 due to the high rate of community infection and to their incomplete immunologic protection within the period of reexposure. During the current pandemic of influenza subtype H1N1, healthcare workers and patients should be aware that symptomatic reinfection might occur after a first episode of infection.
Usually getting sick means that you don't catch something again, however, repeated exposure with a high enough viral load when you only have a weak antibody response means that you could get sick again. And, perhaps the viral strain is different enough that your not so great antibody response isn't going to be enough to protect you entirely. This may have happened in the pediatrician's case, for example.
You are concerned that vaccination will not be effective at preventing infection. It might not be completely effective in all cases, but for most people, it usually is enough, though there are always exceptions to everything.
No flu vax including the seasonal is 100% effective, and no one ever claimed it was the Holy Grail. Vaccines are always chasing a moving target because influenza viruses mutate quickly. However, with antibodies, while complete protection from morbidity might not be entirely possible for some people, prevention of mortality is far more
likely, and for that reason alone, the vax is well worth it especially for pregnant women, and kids.
For the majority of people, the vax is likely to prevent flu given enough time to develop peak antibodies before being exposed to the virus. After the vax, as per Dr. Niman of Recombinomics, "you might be able to detect antibodies in 8-10 days, but maximum response will take about 3 weeks." You are still at risk from an infection
shortly after vaccination, and as per Niman, vaccination "might make the infection worse initially because the immune system is battling the vaccine, and could be more easily overwhelmed by a new infection. Full protection is defined by peak antibody levels."
A major reason for vaccinating as many people as quickly as possible is to help slow down, and then eventually halt the pandemic with herd immunity. The pandemic is going to continue until there are no more susceptible hosts. Herd immunity is going to happen eventually either by enough of us getting sick and recovering or by vaccination.
And, this balancing act, is happening all while the virus is trying to escape from the vaccine which of course, it will eventually succeed in doing.
A different more up to date form of this swine flu strain will then have to be included into the seasonal vaccine for next year along with whatever seasonal influenza is showing up this year (almost none so far but it's early yet).
If a person isn't guaranteed 100% immunity from the vax and could possibly have a light case of flu, would they even be tested and could they run around spreading the H1N1 without knowing it?
canoehead, BSN, RN
6,909 Posts
You are talking about being exposed twice and getting sick twice...vaccination is a form of exposure and is pertinent to the discussion.