Can this really happen?!?

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If you are reading this, then the tutorial for ‘new members' was right when it suggested to pick a vague and catchy title! :cheeky:

Situation: This topic is really about the incorporation of standardized testing within a school's curriculum. :woot: (there have been other threads about this topic, but most of them are old, or closed)

Background: I am a BSN student who's current school is changing their curriculum to incorporate ATI as a part of our grade (15%). Eventually, this will include an exit exam that must be passed prior to graduating from the program and taking the NCLEX. We were admitted to the school without consenting to pay for these additional programs (ATI), and it was a big shock when we were informed about this during orientation (and not during admission). My school has since corrected this oversight, and all newly admitted students must agree to purchase ATI, and they must agree to purchase the mandatory ATI Live Review (the total negotiated costs for these programs is about $1000 and broken up in two separate payments).

Assessment: Our school is implementing these changes (largely because of ATI lobbyist”) due to the severe drop in NCLEX pass scores over the past 5 years. We are currently on probation with the BON, and we are about to lose our accreditation! I am not opposed to ATI (or similar programs), but I take strong issue with the lack of faculty experience. It is my opinion that the teachers of this school are HIGHLY unprepared to educate students and prepare them for the NCLEX (many of them being first time teachers). Therefore, I have a problem with implementing standardized testing into the curriculum, WITHOUT addressing the poorly prepared teachers and their poor teaching abilities.

Recommendation: I personally think we should adhere to the BON's recommendation of:

  1. Not using these programs as High stakes testing” where passing is needed for graduation or program progression
  2. Not patterning curriculum changes based solely off testing criteria

Additional Info: I am not afraid of passing ATI, nor do I believe that it will negatively affect my GPA. (I am an A-B student, who has maintained a level 2 on almost all my ATI exams ... darn Pharm ATI!!) I personally LOVE using ATI, but I feel conflicted about how our school is trying to cover an arterial bleed with a bandaid. Obviously using ATI to increase our board scores is an interim fix”, but it doesn't address the poor education we are receiving!

Questions:

  1. Should mandatory testing be such a large part of a curriculum?
  2. Is there a conflict of interest between a company (ATI), who writes the NCLEX, also lobbying our school (and preventing the free choice of using other programs) and making each student pay almost $1000 to use their program?
  3. What can be done to address this disturbing trend in education?
  4. Are we the only school with these concerns? I'm in Florida, what other states have these problems? What has been done to address them?

Thanks for your time!

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Specializes in ICU, LTACH, Internal Medicine.

1). Yes. You are in school with the goal to pass NCLEX. For 99% of you, it will be the first computer adaptive test ever taken. There is no way to bypass it. So, big stake testing is justified or you won't be prepared for the real thing.

BTW, ATI doesn't write NCLEX, and, IMHO, not the best source to prepare. Also, nobody prevents you to buy any other exam prep materials of your choice and, say, share them with your friends to split cost.

2). Nobody is forced to attend this particular school if unwilling to pay for ATI. There is no conflict of interest. If ATI vendors got there first and talked your administration into bying their product, this is it for students.

3) and 4) So, your school is on probation, with continuously falling NCLEX pass rates and level of teaching so dismal that Boards woke up and noticed. My only question is: why are you still musing about ATI and that $1000 instead of thinking how to get the heck outta there STAT and transfer in some other, more stable and reputable place?

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Your school is attempting to salvage their accreditation by having an exit exam that numerous nursing students take before they graduate and take the nclex. They are doing this because if a school remains below 80 percent on their pass rate they may lose their accreditation. You are right. It does not fix the poor teacher issue. But it does help fix the issue of not passing students that are not up to a certain (ati) standard. Which they are hoping will correlate into a higher nclex passing rate. And a higher nclex pass rate they hope will attract better teachers.

Look at it from their perspective.

And from your perspective. Study for your exams and the ati.

In the real world. Policies change all the time.

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I completely understand and see where they are coming from. If it were my job, I would also do anything possible to fix the problem. I can fully empathize with their position.

I was more curious about how other schools have addressed these problems, and if so, are there other methods at our disposal that perhaps haven't been thought of?

Thanks for your thoughts :)

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Thanks for your insight!

I understand exactly what you are saying. Big stakes testing has been the trend for a while now, and its use is only increasing. But plenty of nurses have passed the NCLEX prior to the use of standardized testing. Additionally, I'm not opposed to standardized testing, just questioning the broad use of it in relation to our curriculum.

You are right about not being forced into this school. But what do you do when policies change a year into a 1.5 year program? If they wished to force the use of ATI on the students, that should have been knowledge made available to us before we spent any money applying for the school (as our admissions information now fully discloses)

And you are absolutely right about leaving... Sure I could quit after spending a year in this program. But as an active member of Student Government, Student Council, and multiple committees, I believe I have a duty to resolve these questions to make our school better. Also... would you seriously just leave your school after paying all this money? Our school losing our accreditation (as I understand it) has no affect on me graduating, nor being able to sit for my NCLEX. That only affects future students.

And thanks for clarifying the ATI/NCLEX relationship. I was told by our faculty that the reason we chose ATI was because they write the NCLEX. I suppose I never bothered to verify that.

Thanks for your comment!

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I know of another school in a similar position that added ati to their curriculum. A very expensive bsn school with a poor nclex pass rate.

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Zombiologist

Do you know how extensively the ATI tests were weighed within the courses? (ours is going to be 15% for each class... that's quite a lot when you consider that the program is only supposed to be supplemental...)

Also, do you know if it strongly influenced a positive correlation to their NCLEX pass rate?

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Specializes in Critical Care, Education.

Bummer. It's awful to be confronted with additional unexpected costs - especially if it was handled in an abrupt way. That is certainly not an insignificant amount of money.

The quality of instruction is ALWAYS in question whenever NCLEX scores decline. Unfortunately, when the number of nursing programs increases as dramatically as it has in Florida, this is an inevitable outcome. The increase in the number of commercial schools has simply been astonishing since FL changed the rules and no longer requires your BON to approve new programs .... that is handled by the state health department instead. Misguided legislation - they though that BON approval was a "barrier" to increasing nursing education capability. At any rate, there simply are not enough qualified faculty to go around. The change has resulted in a large number of FL commercial nursing programs with unbelievably low NCLEX pass rates - like 20%.

No one is a 'natural' teacher. It is a learned discipline, just like any other profession. And it takes time to develop expertise. Traditional schools provide training, development and mentoring to new faculty members, even those in adjunct (part time) positions. This hardly ever happens in a commercial school. So, your observation about the connection between inexperienced faculty & poor outcomes is very valid. Luckily, you now have ATI tools to help you guide your own learning so that you can take more of an active role to ensure that you're prepared for NCLEX success.

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Zombiologist

Do you know how extensively the ATI tests were weighed within the courses? (ours is going to be 15% for each class... that's quite a lot when you consider that the program is only supposed to be supplemental...)

Also, do you know if it strongly influenced a positive correlation to their NCLEX pass rate?

No idea.

But at the end of the day. Ati has lots of good material. Enjoy and learn.

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Couldn't agree more. I'm currently doing a Focused Assessment right now :)

Thanks for taking the time to share your insight.

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Specializes in ICU, LTACH, Internal Medicine.

The thing is, local facilities from LTC to hospitals know very well which schools make quality grads and which are not. If a manager has two applicants, both new grads, both going to take NCLEX next week, and one of them is from school locally known for much less than 80% passing rate, and another one with chances about 95%, who do you think will get the job? Additionally, if you ever thought about going for grad school above diploma mill level, as well as for any CRNA, NNP, CNM or PhD program, then keep in mind that your diploma from school which lost accreditation even temporarily will pretty much kill your chances. Reputable grad schools only accept graduates of nationally accredited programs, and with no history of trouble with Boards.Your current school is feverishly trying to improve NCLEX passing rates so that it could continue to charge all that money for tuition. Unfortunately, all student committees put together cannot do the most important thing, which is attracting and retaining high-quality, talented and dedicated teaching staff. It is very noble that you are trying to improve your school's ways, but from practical point of view there is only two things you can do: either get students of your and other classes together, buy ATI and every other course you can name and study your collective butt off and thus kind of compensate for your failing teachers, or get out of there as soon as possible, because it is better to be an ADN from community college with large student debts but with license, job and a future than someone with X attempts NCLEX, no license, same debts, job in McDonald's and a beautiful piece of paper to decorate your room saying that you are, in fact, BSN.

I am sorry if this doesn't look like what you would prefer to hear but I'd met more than one graduate of low-quality for-profit schools who are now stuck with their diplomas. After struggling to pass NCLEX, getting the least attractive jobs as "old new grads" and so forth, they are not even qualified for clinical ladder because diplomas from their now long closed schools are not accepted in qualified BSN and MSN programs required for promotion.

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Specializes in 15 years in ICU, 22 years in PACU.

OMG. I'm guilty. You are right and caught me!

I could barely read the full text of your OP and scrolled through the replies but I was snagged by your title.

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