Can a nurse be Disciplined in every state

[AutumnApple]

Very educating thread for me.

I must admit, in my walk of life and in my social circles, we're a bit ignorant (meaning, we don't know better) of all this. The talk is that the BON in most states are not doing enough about people who lose their license in state A then run to state B and repeat all the offenses over again until they're caught...........then move onto state C...........so on........so forth.

We are operating under the belief that things like this are overlooked more often than not. I guess this is not entirely true. Very odd too because when I got my BSN, the fact that most BON don't manage to track this well was a specific topic we talked about. People even presented research on how CA was just not monitoring things at all.

Yeah, my sources of information on the subject are limited.

So, I'm learning that not only do they monitor for this but, could be overdoing it now. It's been a long time since I earned my BSN so, maybe things have changed.

Very interesting subject to say the least. I wonder how many out there are like me and have been given the impression that it's the other way around and not monitored enough? And I wonder where that false assumption comes from?

[SororAKS, ADN, RN]

It's way way overdone. Double Jeopardy is the term in Criminal Law, briefly, that means a person cannot be tried more than once for the same crime. Boards of Nursing operate under Administrative Law, not the same thing. Thus, they can and do, do whatever they want. Ridiculous that one can successfully complete Probation and one monitoring program and move to CA/TX/FL and have to do it all over again. Enough already. Remind me to never move to those states.

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

I'm not an expert...disclosure here! Answering based on what I know in my state. Maybe different in other states.

Yes. I'm pretty sure a BRN can discipline under the circumstances you describe. I do not think you can have a separate charge or additional mandates, though. One punishment for one crime, so to speak. The state where you want to practice may require you to complete whatever punishment before they will license you in their state. It doesn't matter what state you were in when the DUI occurred.

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

YES! Two states I held a license in when I got charged with a DUI gave me discipline (I subsequently surrendered in both.) My state of residence where I was charged with the DUI (never convicted now dismissed under a first offender program) gave me 2 years of probation which I successfully completed and worked off. I now hold an unencumbered license in my state (yaaaaa!). I just applied for endorsement to Hawaii now that I have an "unencumbered" and free&clear license in my state. Soooooo, should be easy and I should expect to be granted an unencumbered free &clear license via endorsement in Hawaii right???? WRONG...

...a BON can do whatever they want. They can give me probation in their state as I had been formerly disciplined in another state. Again: A BON CAN DO WHAT EVER THEY WANT. Fair no. Will I survive and thrive: Heck YES! I am beyond the horrendous shame they want us to slink away with and internalize for the rest of our lives. Someone will always hire us probationers. I don't look to nursing to give me a dream job.

This experience will not keep me from living. Also, I am beginning to see that there is a lot more than nursing out there. It is a big and beautiful world.

I will keep you all posted and let you know if my new state decides I require more "discipline"........eternal punishment for 3 glasses of wine while on-call never seeing a patient nor entering a facility night of arrest-over 3 years old never convicted of a DUI 100% dismissed=punishment for life from the BONs....

Love and peace, Paidmydues (& then some)

I wish all nurses knew how unfair the BRN's can be. I am going to quote an excerpt from an article written by a lawyer I spoke with recently. It was sent to me in print and so I don't know if the entire article can be accessed online as I haven't checked that yet. The name of it is: Due Process for Accused Health-care Professionals In Disciplinary Proceedings. Law offices of Brown and Brown. Torrance, CA.

"An accused health-care professional may be treated with less fairness than a citizen accused of a traffic violation and may receive a rude awakening regarding his rights to defense."

Maybe I should post an article on the subject?

[SororAKS, ADN, RN]

Yes. That would be very useful for many.

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

I'm not an expert...disclosure here! Answering based on what I know in my state. Maybe different in other states.

Yes. I'm pretty sure a BRN can discipline under the circumstances you describe. I do not think you can have a separate charge or additional mandates, though. One punishment for one crime, so to speak. The state where you want to practice may require you to complete whatever punishment before they will license you in their state. It doesn't matter what state you were in when the DUI occurred.

I totally misspoke here. "paidmydues" said it correctly. The BON's or BRN's can do whatever they like. Nurses need to know this. But like with a lot of others things in life, no one thinks it will happen to them.

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

From what I am hearing, if you have go through and complete a recovery program in one state and want to get a license in another even if it's 10 years down the road there is a good chance you will have to complete the recovery/monitoring program again..... Does that include starting from the beginning again? Would you have to repeat an IOP, have a narcotic restriction, hours and OT restrictions etc? Sounds to me that you really never pay your dues and are always guilty. Talk about not being able to redeem yourself. People with violent criminal offenses aren't punished for the same thing for the rest of their lives. Where does it end?

I'm told by credible sources that the only way to end this is to change laws in each state. Something as important as this is over-looked, i.e., our laws that govern health-care providers. It is similar, if not the same, for Physicians, EMT's Chiropractors,

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

As much as I want to believe it's about recovery I can't help but think that a lot of it is about MONEY! I would like to think that the Nursing Boards in various states actually care about the welfare of the public as well as the welfare of nurses. The more I read and the longer I participate in this process my heart gets heavier and heavier as I realize it's more about money than it is safety and recovery. Sorry for the rant folks. Feeling discouraged!

Don't be sorry. It is a very important issue. Money does have a certain influence here re how the CA BRN operates, at least. They are way under staffed/budgeted, and do not spend, in my opinion, enough time investigating the accusations, nor do they use a process that ensures fairness. Once they convict, they want their money back also. The convicted must repay the BRN their costs in investigating the charge as part of their punishment....several thousands of dollars for even the most straight forward, seemingly simple charge. So, IF the BRN is found to be wrong, they loose money. They will do whatever they can to make sure their decision sticks.

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

Don't be sorry. It is a very important issue. Money does have a certain influence here re how the CA BRN operates, at least. They are way under staffed/budgeted, and do not spend, in my opinion, enough time investigating the accusations, nor do they use a process that ensures fairness. Once they convict, they want their money back also. The convicted must repay the BRN their costs in investigating the charge as part of their punishment....several thousands of dollars for even the most straight forward, seemingly simple charge. So, IF the BRN is found to be wrong, they loose money. They will do whatever they can to make sure their decision sticks.

One more thing...I am not only talking about situations where recovery is an issue. The charges can be about anything.

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

Nurses, nurses and nurses, I tried to hire a nurse in recovery w/ narcotic restriction and I was told that they would hire her but if anything went wrong, and they meant anything, I would "be termed" from my job as well and they put that in writing. Oh, big part of this I supervise/manage all the medical in a substance use treatment center. Now, that is oxymoron!!!! Needless to say, I felt sick really sick to my stomach, I work in a treatment center I could not offer support to another recovery nurse. That was just another time where other talk out of both sides of there &^%^%&*(&*( mouth.

So, here's another question. How can some of the recovery community be about changing the negative stigma if they do not practice what they preach? I kinda feel the same way as RN3264, heavy heart . This is where my hope pops in and takes over and never give up.

To Dirtyhippiegirl, Thanks for responding and my story is no different than anyone else. Tried a drug, felt normal, got caught, now have the privilege of 3 mental health DX, nicotine dependency, cocaine and ADHD, survivor of severe domestic abuse, did time with a regulatory board, narcotic restriction, peed in cup and the lab got a cheap peep show (not really, the lab was fantastic) used all my retirement funds, everything was repo'd car ,house, etc. almost homeless, student loan defaulted, fed my dog before me then i learned about food banks and charity care, lost grandpa to a drunk driver, brother died 3 years later and had to ask for help to have him cremated.

reinstated, worked in substance use treatment centers, suspended license due to paper work error, i take partial ownership. lost apartment and moved in with mother. moved to another state due money or lack of money, (sister moved us). Licensed unrestricted in that state, voluntarily entered into there state program and successfully completed. have had 2 jobs in 5 years both in management of treatment centers, got a loan for a car still reside with mother, never relapsed or returned to use of cocaine, the "i will take your healthy attitude monster" died because HOPE was stronger and some am I. I feel the pain of others when they are numb with the hope they will feel again and work through the numbness and grief process. My story is no different, we are nurses and are strong and continue to get stronger even 15 years later.

Although, i continue to hide my recovery (my secret life) because of the negative thoughts some health care professionals still have with substance use drivers. I work on shame and guilt even today. This was theraputic, thanks dirtyhippiegirl

Here the guts of the question, I was a traveling nurse before any issues and held 7RN licenses.

Now, one by one each state I have held a license in, though the licenses are not active, nor were they active when I was first diciplined nor am I seeking to reinstate, the BON's want some sort of hearing or discipline or both or MONEY.

So when does it end, from me not soon enough. There has got to be some sort of hidden law that forbids nurses from repeatedly being reprimanded for the SAME issues that have been resolved and remain resolved. Where is that law?

Thanks to all of you for remaining on this site to give others hope and respect. Your the best

on the upside

thank you, so much for sharing.

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

That's all part of the problem enuf _already. If I want to move to Kentucky in 10 years and work there as an RN I have to start all over with a monitoring program even if there haven't been any incidents in 10 years. That's like saying I commit bank robbery in CA and go to jail for 5 years. Get out and have no other arrests. 10 years down the road and I want to move to Florida. Before I do that do I need to spend 5 years in Florida's prison before I can move? It's essentially being punished over and over and over.....

i would love love to hear other points of views... Opinions..... Experiences in this matters

Believe it or not, this is in fact true. Also, it is not only how they handle substance abuse issues, it is how they handle all issues. I was as naive as can be. Also, I couldn't believe the process was so one sided. The accused barely, and I mean BARELY has any rights at all with relation to defense. Narcotic diversion issue is a bit more black and white. If you are actually caught taking the drug, found to be impaired and have testing to prove you are under the influence, then you get charged. The way the cases are handled is truly unfair, but then add another layer...add the layer where the accused didn't actually do what the final decision states. Imagine that on top of the way the cases are handled. It is mind blowing.

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

Yes friends it was a gradual realization for me that, after finishing probation in my home state and my license is unencumbered, I will not necessarily receive my unencumbered license in another. I have decided that if HI wants me to serve more probation I will appeal. It will be my pleasure to quietly stand before the board and again quietly advocate for myself. I shall help the members of the board see that there are real, live, normal, healthy, vibrant nurses behind their decisions.

...and on to Hawaii. I will be starting a massage therapy program in Hilo on Sept. 1st! I will be living on a senior hippy commune. If need be, I have a return ticket for next summer. I will work at the sweet community hospital that got me thru probation and rent a room in my friend's home for several months and then hi-tail it back to HI. After 2 years I am valuable to them now. Last night shift I started out in ED, went to M/S and ended up admitting patients for day-surgery. DIVERSIFY IN PROBATION!!!!

If I must accept probation in HI, I have already targeted several nursing homes and treatment centers (treatment centers can hire us at 2 years + of recovery). I will appeal to the board for homecare priviliges. The technique that worked for me was to focus on and personally hand my resume into the hands of a busy DON at a SNF and call them every 2 weeks or so. That is how I got my first 2 jobs in probation. Finally I got a very nice job in a rural community hospital where I very comfortably worked off my probation.

Yes, and I am one of those who lost everything and have come back. YOU CAN TOO!!! Private message me and I will give you a pep talk. I believe in us!

My dear tribe, do not loose hope. We will get through all of this to the other side. PLAN: Hawaii, India in Feb., 2017, then perhaps New Zealand Nov., 2017.

The world is sooooo big and beautiful......love you all

Paid. (((((hugs)))))

You have a beautiful attitude. Just feel that if you have to appeal, that is more money out of your pocket all over again. Still not fair at all.