for every nurse i've seen stand up for ourselves, i've seen ten that don't. i've tried to ask this quesiton during nursing school and all i get from profs are "well thats the problem, nurses should stand up for themselves". well that doesn't answer my question. Why DON"T nurses stand up for themselves, i mean we're all co-workers when it comes down to it right? They can't fire us, or amm i just being naive and there is something i don't know yet. Like today, the nurse took a call for a doc and told the doc that she had a call on hold on such and such a line. Well the doc came out and said "who is it" and the nurse replied "i'm sorry, i don't know" and the doc chuckled in a haughty kind of way and said "well next time could you find out". She said it in a way that was arrogant as if she could walk the literally ten steps to the phone and find out herself. she didn't say please or thank you. it would have been find had she said "well next time, if you could find out, that would really help me out", but i mean, she acted as if the nurse was her personal secretary. the nurse's responsibility is to the patient she is taking care of and to assist the doc who is taking care of the patient with her, but not to be her personal secretary esp. if it is not related to the patient. It was a courtesy she thought she was entitled to. oh and sorry i kept typing that it was a doc, it was actually the FNP. another instance was when the nurse was at the station busy doing something and the PA had said something the nurse did not hear and she proceeded to said "are you IGNORING me?!" and the nurse heard her and said "i'm sorry, i'm not" half still busy. and the PA replied "okay...just DONT!". wow i mean, seriously, she really needed to get the *** down her high horse. is there is a certain reason, nurses take this. its not always flat out rudeness, its the tiny comments and gestures here and there that make me angry. can docs do something to get us fired or written up?
I worked with him on Saturday just the two of us for the entire office and he commented (as he has before with one on one Saturday clinics) how much better he likes working on Saturdays when there is no one else around and he is not on call. No one to bug him from the office and the hospital is not calling him every time he turns around. I am sure this is even more amplified when he is working in the hospital itself. Doctors have stress too. I am not excusing bad behavior. I am interested to see what it will be like working with him in the hospital after I become and RN.
True, Doctors are people too, often times on call for long hours
in addition to scheduled hours. Many have serious family committments
as well. That is true of many professionals not just medical doctors.
The worst situation I had was as a student. I was at a major teaching
hospital, working on my patients chart. A resident came over and
asked for the chart which I gave to him. I asked him to please return
it to me when he was done. He sure did, he stood up and flung it from
a short distance as hard as he could and it struck my arm.
Before I could respond he was off.
In the other spectrum, we had a resident who would check on his
patients late eve/early am. The floor was often short staffed with nurses.
It was not unusual to find him quietly changing a patients soiled bed.
There could be more to the story than is being said here. Or, it could be just as stated, like the PA and FNP in the first story. I would just ignore them or maybe say things like I didn't want to intrude in your personal life.
There's always the passive-aggressive approach. Rude docs' charts get "lost" for a few minutes, labs get "misplaced" and you don't have time to pull them up on the computer because Mrs. Smith is about to fall off of her bedpan and you must get to her right now. Start paging them from payphones at 3 a.m. or on Saturday evening when you know they're at some party - don't be there to answer; put their phone #'s up in gas station potty stalls, stuff like that. Fantasy, of course, but it helps to ease the pain we live with at the hands of some people.
There is always the option of getting some coworkers together and going as a group to someone in charge and letting it be known that you are enduring this and that and you want it to STOP.
Think about retirement.
Or, the other situation------------
The Doctor became ill, and became our patient.
The respect we received upon his discharge and recovery was
overwhelming.
Funny, he never looked at us the same way after that experience.
I work ER, and we have a core group of physicians....out of the approx 15, I would say 10 are usually a pleasure to work with. The others are just difficult. And, of course, I have my favorite docs. You'd better believe that I go above and beyond with the docs that are a)nice b)reasonable c) personable d)cute (just kidding). I am more comfortable going to them with things, and I definitely make it easier for them (if I anticipate having to guaiac a stool, I'll get everything ready, if we're going to put in a central line, I'll get the stuff the way that particular doc likes it) For the docs that are jerks to me, I just do what I'm supposed to do, nothing more nothing less.
It just makes for a much nicer work environment when you can joke and have fun with your coworkers. We often go out for drinks after a shift (nurses and docs) and have a great time. But THOSE certain docs are never invited for some reason :)
By the way, I think sometimes docs get overstressed and forget that they're still people.....I figured out in nursing school that med students were nice until about their 4th yr, then I think they took a class on being a jerk to nurses. It is funny now because we get 3 or 4 new residents every month, and you can quickly find out which ones are going to make it....they're nice as can be to the RNs and listen to us (hint...if I ask if you want a UA, you do :)) My favorite student/resident in the last few months asked to read my chart to make sure he didn't forget anything in his assessment.
I have done both, stood up for myself and backed down. It, for me, depends on the situation and if it's worth the effort for me. If I know it's a certain situation, like life or death thing, yes, I'll be the first to stand up to them. If it's a doc that is just usually cranky, who gives a crap. He/she is probably just an unhappy person to start with. I have stood up to them in the past when I knew it was the right thing to do for myself and the patient and I even got a call the next night and an apology from the Doc. (that made me speechless b/c I was expecting another confrontation). I felt good for my self and the patient.
Docs can not get us fired or write us up. The only one's who can write me up are my charge nurse, manager and her higher ups.
Several months ago a team of docs demanded that I tell them who the night shift nurse was who had cared for a patient of mine who had gone south at the beginning of my shift. I told them they would have to talk to the charge nurse or the nursing supervisor. They were not happy about that at all. (If they had been the slightest bit savvy, they could have looked at the charting and figured it out)
Regardless of what the night shift nurse had or hadn't done, I could not ascertain that it had anything to do with the immediate care of the patient. As far as I could tell, thier wanting to know was for strictly punative reasons.
As far as I know, neither the charge nurse nor nursing supervisor gave them the name of the night shift nurse.
I spent the entire 12 hours shift with this patient and caught hell from the senior residents, but I stood my ground.
Will someone please explain to me what "writing someone up" means? I've heard that thrown around as a threat for nearly 20 years and still don't know why I should be afraid when someone threatens to 'write me up.' I just tell them to spell my name correctly, and then I never hear another word about it.
Will someone please explain to me what "writing someone up" means? I've heard that thrown around as a threat for nearly 20 years and still don't know why I should be afraid when someone threatens to 'write me up.' I just tell them to spell my name correctly, and then I never hear another word about it.
Some places have an official form, such as incident reports, to report abuse or something that was done wrong. Other times its a memo, or a letter complaining about something. Its what we mean when we keep telling people to document, document, document when there is something going on that you really want changed. That kind of complaint can stay in your personnel file for a long time, and used any time "they" want to discipline you officially. Our union actually has in the contract that you can review your file, and ask that anything over 6 months old be removed, so it can't be used against you years later.
I not only tell people to do it, but spell my name out loud for them:yeah:
Docs are not my boss, if they are rude to me and start carrying on then i turn my back on them. I didn't do a three year degree and have a fifteen thousand dollar student debt to be treated like an idiot. When they are prepared to speak to me in a reasonable and professional manner then i will listen to them.
The nurses who just put up with it let the whole profession down.
Although most docs are considerate, there are those that ruin it for everyone. If I have made a bad mistake, then by all means, yell at me. But don't yell at me because I'm a woman, or your patient's pain med isn't working, or Radiology is running late, or you had a fight with your kids, etc. I am not your kid, I am not your wife, I am your partner in the care of your patient. I am your patient's advocate, I am with your patient 12 hours a day, and I deserve respect.
I use to just take it, and it ate me up inside. The breaking point was when I was 8 months pregnant in a very difficult pregnancy and was helping a rather arrogant surgeon do a dressing change. He had always picked on me and I never said anything. On that day, he threw all of the old, bloody dressings on the floor and then yelled at me on the messiness of my patient's room and told me to clean it up. My patient was horrified and started screaming at him. I promptly went to administration and threatened to sue the man. He was removed the next day.
Another thing I noticed was that when I worked on a general Med/Surg floor, I was treated like a simpleton and my suggestions were laughed at. When I transferred to ICU, these same doctors were asking me for advice and treating me like an equal! I swear as long as I live, I will never understand MDs!
My advice is this, do not expect administration to stand up for you. If you have a problem with a physician, take them aside and ask them why they are upset and what can be done to remedy the problem. Keep calm no matter how much they yell. If nothing seems to work, just drop it. They are not worth the time or energy. you are not there to make them happy.
Consequences of standing up to the "difficult" doc:
1) He/She will treat you like an idiot when you call him with problems resulting in your patient not getting adequate management.
2) You can expect the "dosen't play well with others" dig on your evaluation- try to get a promotion with that being your monicker.
3) You will get no latitude to make decisions based on changing patient conditions- you will have to call eveything to the doc or a resident.
4) You create an adversarial enviornment that just escalates with each interaction.
I'm not telling anyone to allow abusive behavior but I have known nurses who make it thier goal to jump on any non genteel comment made by the docs no matter what else is going on. It works out better for the nurse to take the high road and remain professional and dispassionate in nurse doctor relations.
Consequences of standing up to the "difficult" doc:
1) He/She will treat you like an idiot when you call him with problems resulting in your patient not getting adequate management.
2) You can expect the "dosen't play well with others" dig on your evaluation- try to get a promotion with that being your monicker.
3) You will get no latitude to make decisions based on changing patient conditions- you will have to call eveything to the doc or a resident.
4) You create an adversarial enviornment that just escalates with each interaction.
I disagree.
9 times out of 10 I let things slide, but that 1 in 10 time that I 'stand up to a doc,' (or anyone else, for that matter) I usually end up watching that person either make a fool of him-/herself, eat crow, or I receive an apology from that person.
We are doing not only ourselves a disservice, but also out patients when we back down. It can be uncomfortable, but in the end I have found I am treated with a greater amount of respect when the dust settles.
Specializes in ICU, SDU, OR, RR, Ortho, Hospice RN.
I could not agree with you more and that got me written up one day. I was rounding one am with physician who, once again, was very rude and condescending to me. This time I said something back. Well he had me written up for being rude to him in front of patients and being unprofessional. Nevermind the fact that he was rude and unprofessional to me in front of patients. The patients did not hear anything come out of my mouth anyway. Another time he told me I was full of s..t loud enough for the patients to hear. Since he was the big bread winner we had to keep his sorry butt happy! Now I have to bite my tongue every time he is rude to me!!
Ohhhhh I would have requested to have his butt outside of ear shot and let him have it in a very professional manner that he is NOT to speak to you in this way. You are also a professional and he should treat you like this. I would refuse to round with him if his behavior does not change YOU are just as important as he is.
I have always been respectful of any Doc/ surgeon or specialist but if they were EVER rude to me I would ask to speak with them outside the room.
It has got me many apologies and respect over the years.
I had some that would only do rounds with me which was kinda nice
I had one very tall Neurosurgeon blushing at me speaking to his kneecaps one day about his behavior and attitude to me in front of the pt. He had a legitimate complaint but did nto have to take it out on me. I dragged him out. Requested some professional curteousy as give him. I informed him I would find out why his request had not been carried out and let him know.
I did inform him and he thanked me for following through with this.
We became good buddies after that Yup lucky me LOL
Docs and their tantrums but we do not have to let them get away with what is NOT acceptable professional behavior eh?
one day about his behavior and attitude to me in front of the pt. He had a legitimate complaint but did nto have to take it out on me. I dragged him out. Requested some professional curteousy as give him. I informed him I would find out why his request had not been carried out and let him know.
Guest717236
1,062 Posts
True, Doctors are people too, often times on call for long hours
in addition to scheduled hours. Many have serious family committments
as well. That is true of many professionals not just medical doctors.
The worst situation I had was as a student. I was at a major teaching
hospital, working on my patients chart. A resident came over and
asked for the chart which I gave to him. I asked him to please return
it to me when he was done. He sure did, he stood up and flung it from
a short distance as hard as he could and it struck my arm.
Before I could respond he was off.
In the other spectrum, we had a resident who would check on his
patients late eve/early am. The floor was often short staffed with nurses.
It was not unusual to find him quietly changing a patients soiled bed.
He was a treasure, and we gave him VIP treatment.
It is really an issue of respect.............