what does c=rn mean?

CCU NRS · Aug 17, 2004

If that's the case, why are grades so important for CRNA school? And, even if you have the grades to make it into CRNA school, why do they kick you out if you make C's?
I've never understood the "grades don't matter" argument. If grades don't matter, then why don't they let C students become CRNA's?
Based on the comments here, a lot of CRNAs could be "educated idiots," just because they made good grades ... which, obviously, is ridiculous.

I was not one of those that used the educated idiots phrase, however I think you are taking it a bit too literally, I don't think anyone said everyone that makes 4.0 gpa or even everyone with good grades are educated idiots, I beleive what was meant is that on occasion you will see those people that can do very well with educational endeavors but do not have a good grasp of common sense type situations, or they are very technical in their care and not very sensitive to the feelings of Pt's my best example of this is the best surgeons usually have the worst bedside manner, they are very intelligent and very skilled and adept at procedure but dealing with people is just not where they shine, they just run through and ask if there are any problems and give kudos and move on, this does not make them less of a great surgeon but it does show an area in which their skills are lacking. I don't think anyone here is telling anyone else to be lazy and try to scoot by with the least possible work, in fact it is or should be understood that nursing in general is a field of continuous growth and education, you can never stop learning and you can never quite improving or you simply will not succeed!

Sheri257 · Aug 17, 2004

I don't think anyone said everyone that makes 4.0 gpa or even everyone with good grades are educated idiots, I beleive what was meant is that on occasion you will see those people that can do very well with educational endeavors but do not have a good grasp of common sense type situations, or they are very technical in their care and not very sensitive to the feelings of Pt's

Actually, this is what was said, and I don't think I took it out of context:

There are a lot of "educated idiots" out there doing horrible things to patients. RN's, MD's, etc, with 4.0 GPA's and Magna cum whatevers who I wouldn't let treat the dead armadillo in my yard.

The key phrase here is that there are "a lot of educated idiots" out there. And, BTW, this is pretty typical of the "grades don't matter" threads I've read. People take a few exceptions, jump to broader generalizations, and before you know it grades, and school for that matter, becomes totally irrelevant ... just so people can feel better about making C's.

I think this is insulting for professionals like CRNA's. Maybe ... just maybe ... the fact that CRNA's make very few anesthesia errors once they graduate (and studies have proven this) ... has something to do with the fact that they did well in school.

Maybe their bedside manner could be lacking, but at least they're not hurting anybody. I'll take knowledge over bedside manner any day of the week. Lack of knowledge can kill you, lack of bedside manner doesn't.

:coollook:

jewelcutt · Aug 17, 2004

Anesthesia school choose students that not only have great grades and

GRE's, but also have a proven track record of excellent experience and references to prove what great nurses they are. Besides the fact that they want people who are involved in committees, research, organizations, precepting, and attend conferences because this shows they will do it for the CRNA profession when finished with school. They want strong students who will advance the profession. So basically they want students who do well in school because of the difficult material and ones who will practice well clinically with common sense.

Jen2 · Aug 17, 2004

I think this is insulting for professionals like CRNA's

All nurses are professionals. I respect each specialty of nursing for what it is. Everyone does not want to become a CRNA. If we did who would take care of that patient on the floor?

I do very well in nursing school. My average was a 94% last semester and guess what? That was a B+. In my school a 95% is an A, and in order to get that you have to make a 96% and above on tests because of the way the program is graded and the number of questions on exams.

My GPA is 3.7. The CRNA programs around here require a 3.0 and 3 years critical care experience for admission. If I wanted to go to CRNA school I could, but that's not for everyone. I shadowed a CRNA in my O.R. rotation and did not like it. I have a great respect for CRNA's but it's not for me.

There are some people who make A's that I would not want to take care of me. One of the A students in my class was kicked out of the program for too many clinical errors. Then there are some C students that I study with that know the material front and back and deliver excellent patient care but have test anxiety so bad that they get C's. They are still going to be excellent nurses and all they want to be is nurse.

CCU NRS · Aug 17, 2004

Actually, this is what was said, and I don't think I took it out of context:

I never said you took it out of context I said you take it too literally.

The key phrase here is that there are "a lot of educated idiots" out there. And, BTW, this is pretty typical of the "grades don't matter" threads I've read. People take a few exceptions, jump to broader generalizations, and before you know it grades, and school for that matter, becomes totally irrelevant

As you note here "A lot" and as I said this does not mean everyone that has a 4.0 gpa. It seems to me that you are doing exactly what you are stating happens by making broader generalizations, and taking exceptions. Lastly this was never & is not now a grades don't matter thread someone that is new to nursing simply asked what is C=RN and most of us attempted to give a simple answer.

I am very happy for everyone that makes good grades and I feel that like one poster mentioned it comes easy to some, my wife for example made 3.8 GPA and never studied, she knew the material and was able to test on the subject and make A's & B's with little or no effort, while I on the other hand worked very hard and attended study groups and read every word of the assigned text to make B's & C's am I resentful of her grades? NO! Is she a better nurse than I am? I would say yes, she would say no. We are completely different in our careers, she will tell anyone that she could not do what I do, I work CCU and do Heart Recovery and CVVHD and IABP. She works for a GI doctor and runs his office and he comes to her for advice and answers to question about what treatment/medicine regimen he should use to treat xyz. I know I could not do her job, I also know as far as straight knowledge she is way out of my league. I never intended to go to CRNA so I never thought about what impact my grades would have down the road, if CRNA schools will not accept students with less than a 3.5 GPA then anyone that intends to continue on this course should be aware of this and work accordingly, but as was also mentioned nursing courses are often more subjective and often the grading curve is more difficult than some other majors. As the OP did place this in the CRNA board they should be made aware of this and I think that has been accomplished.

Sheri257 · Aug 17, 2004

I guess people seem to be missing the broader point here, so I'll try to clarify:

The fact is: There are more C students than A students. C is the average grade, and the majority of students are going to fall in that category. That also means that some, although not all C students, for various reasons, will make statements that grades don't matter. I have heard this many times.

For every student who works really hard and still gets C's, there are also C students who do the minimum required work and make outrageous statements to make themselves feel better about their lower grades. This is where I have a problem.

Just for once, I'd like to see some statistical evidence ... instead of the anecdotal "I knew a person who made A's who did this or that ..." Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any studies which have evaluated the error rates of C students versus A students after they become RN's.

But we do know that CRNA's make good grades, and that their error rates are statistically very low. I wasn't suggesting that people become CRNA's. And I wasn't suggesting that every C student is resentful of A students.

I was merely pointing out the fact that, in the case of CRNA's, there is at least some evidence that grades do equate with competence. And that most CRNA's are not "educated idiots." It would be nice if people would refrain from making such statements which, I feel, are insulting to those who work very hard for their grades and education.

:coollook:

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Aug 17, 2004

Edited: Sometimes there is just no point in trying to get someone to understand that they have, well, missed the point.

Sheri257 · Aug 17, 2004

Well, this is bizarre Chris, to say the least. The CRNA/grade discussion was brought up by others on this thread. And I was primarily responding to the "educated idiots" comment, which was made by someone else.

Why you would take offense to that is beyond me. I was not responding specifically to any of your comments at all.

And I never called anyone a "slouch."

:confused:

CCU NRS · Aug 17, 2004

Just for once, I'd like to see some statistical evidence ... instead of the anecdotal "I knew a person who made A's who did this or that ..." Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any studies which have evaluated the error rates of C students versus A students after they become RN's.

The reason you have not seen studies that indicate a difference in A vs C students after they become RN's is because NO ONE ever has to tell anyone what their GPA was in school and nobody knows in the field who made A's and who made C's what we do see are people that have either great social skills and wonderful bedside manner and are knowledgeable and do all the required teaching and perform great care, or people that are resentful of having to work as hard as they do because they thought they would go into nursing because it was easy, and we see people that are wonderful with procedure and performance but are very introverted and uneasy with people, or we see some that are unprofessional and uncaring and are doing the minimum amount they can to get by. What we don't know is what the GPA was of any of these types because once you are out of school and pass boards you are an RN. I have seen some of the threads you are talking about and I will say that obviously there will always be lazy people that will do the least amount that will get them by, they will be in all walks of life, Doctor, Lawyer, Baker, Shoemaker people are individuals that is what makes the world a fun and exciting place. What we do have an obligation to as nurses is to be mindful of people that are not performing up to parr and as Pt advocates see to it that they do not hurt anyone. When it comes to this point I don't care if you made A's, B's, or C's if you are not performing safely you can not be allowed to continue PT care.

CCU NRS · Aug 17, 2004

Edited: Sometimes there is just no point in trying to get someone to understand that they have, well, missed the point.

Ilove that you added "I'm a girl"

Sheri257 · Aug 17, 2004

The reason you have not seen studies that indicate a difference in A vs C students after they become RN's is because NO ONE ever has to tell anyone what their GPA was in school and nobody knows in the field who made A's and who made C's.

That's probably true in most cases. But I do know of some instances where employers have asked administrators at my school to recommend grads for certain jobs based on their performance.

:coollook:

nursemike, ASN, RN · Aug 17, 2004

I was a straight A student who nearly got bounced for clinical errors, and I really don't lack for common sense. They just don't tolerate a lot of errors. In fairness to me, these weren't errors that harmed or endangered patients, but I had to talk to my dean and instructor--which turned out to be a blessing, as it helped tremendously with my anxiety. My biggest problem was, is, and probably always will be care planning, but I've got that more or less under control.

My solution was to cut way back on the time I spent on easy stuff, like Micro and Pharm, and work my tail off on care plans. Even skipped a couple of classes to pre-plan.

So, I wound up with a B in Pharm, and it seems like I spend a lot of time looking up meds.

A fairly new nurse on my floor is getting a rep as "book smart" with no common sense. My opinion is that she is indeed smart, she cares, and she isn't a bit lazy. She is also very young and very new, and if we give her a chance, she'll calm down and make a fine nurse. She gets anxious dealing with things she hasn't encountered--what's strange about that.

Anyway, I definitely agree that grades aren't everything. A classmate of mine has a pretty good motto: "Make B's, have a life." If I knew how, I would. I know how to make A's and I know how to make F's. A's are better.