I work in the SICU of a fairly large (by area standards) Magnet (whoop-T-doo) hospital. We have a 7 month Critical Care Nurse Residency program for new grads to go directly into the critical care units. It used to only be open to BSN grads. In 2006 they admitted their first ADN prepared new grad (me). The residency program requires signing a two year contract with a buy out if a nurse chooses not to continue to work for two years. After several years of 2/3 or more of each class buying out their contract after one year to go off to CRNA school and, ever increasing buy out cost, they decided not to recruit or hire new grad BSNs into the program anymore. Starting with the new class (Feb 2009) all nurses hired into the residency program will be ADN or diploma grads. This was explained to us in our unit meeting yesterday.
Currently ADN prepared nurses are far outnumbered by BSN nurses (both in the hospital and the SICU). there are even more RNs with MSNs working in our unit than RNs with ADNs.
The thinking is that ADN prepared RNs are less likely to go off to CRNA school and even if they do it will take them two years to get their BSN and they will fulfill their contract.
Hmmmm....maybe that ICU can't keep people because the working conditions stink....there's a thought. Instead of excluding BSNs, maybe the hospital should try to improve conditions so people want to stay.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I am sure the hospital is aware that collecting on this "buy-out" successfully in court would be next to impossible, even if the employee signed the contract.
*** It doesn't really matter. The medical center that offers scholarships requires that nurses going to CRNA school leave the hospital "In good standing". So refuse to pay off the contract and it makes you ineligible for the scholarship.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Hmmmm....maybe that ICU can't keep people because the working conditions stink....there's a thought. Instead of excluding BSNs, maybe the hospital should try to improve conditions so people want to stay.
*** I work there. It's a nice place to work. We don't seem to have any problem keeping those nurses who come to the ICU from med-surg. BSN graduates are not leaving because it's a bad place to work. They are leaving to go to CRNA school. My class had six graduates. Only two are still there, the two with ADNs (I am one of them even though I graduated from an RN to BSN program in June of this year). The other 4 all went to CRNA school. Two are friends of mine. I know they only went to nursing school to go to CRNA school.
I do not agree with this policy. I posted it because I thought it was unique.
I feel it is wrong to discriminate for staff nurse positions based on degree whether it is discrimination against ADNs or BSNs.
I cannot speak for the rest of the country but in the NY area. The clinical component of the programs are identical 4 semesters of hands on learning, classroom theory, lectures. In the 4-year schools the firstl 4 semesters of nursing are filled with non-nursing related pre-requisites, ie; English, Sociology, Statistics. I have compared course content with other local students and the nursing component seems to be identical.
Specializes in Trauma ICU, Surgical ICU, Medical ICU.
I think this is absolutely rediculous and it seems that working conditions are not favorable for anyone else to stay, or it is WAY TOO EASY to get into your CRNA school! How many ICUs are there in this hospital? Sure, every year our ICU has about 2 people that end up going but that does very little as we hire so many other nurses to take their place. Also, our ICU is such a great place to work that many nurses have been there 30+ years and would NEVER leave. We have 4 CRNA schools within a 50mi radius but we also have many great hospitals with many ICUs that people are interviewing from. I find it hard to believe that ALL your nurses are going to CRNA school. Also many schools are soon requiring 2 years exp before being admitted. The school I want to apply to does and the manager refuses to write any recommendations for anyone without having 2 years experience in our unit. Maybe the unit needs to hire more people in anticipation of replacing a few going on to grad school. Of course turnover is going to be higher in these areas but thats just a fact and no reason to deny BSNs the chance to apply. With the few that leave every year you usually get 1 or 2 that end up staying forever and ever IF that particular ICU is a good place to work.
All in all, sounds like a pretty weak solution to the problem.
I'm glad the place that just hired me (new ABSN grad) doesn't have a similar policy...I'm entering a critical care program next month, and I definitely have plans to go on to CRNA school. However, I also plan to work out my whole 2.5 year commitment, and then some, since I'm planning to have kids during that time. That's exactly what I told my interviewer - that while I did have plans to go to grad school "eventually," I wasn't one of those who was just going to use the unit for a year to get CRNA experience. That seemed to satisfy her, since I got the job. It was also completely honest. No one should be discouraged from pursuing higher education, but unfortunately CRNA programs don't really leave time for students to work. It's also understandable that hospitals don't want to sink all the money into training people only to have them leave after a year. Thing is, the way to solve this is by raising the buyout price to the point that it's no longer costing the unit money when people leave early. Then you put in clauses for extenuating circumstances - illness, military spouse transferred, etc. - and only really punish the people who leave to go back to school or just because they don't like the unit. Excluding a whole class of qualified nurses is not the smartest way to go about it, in my opinion.
Specializes in Infection Preventionist/ Occ Health.
I know that there can be minimum qualifications for hiring someone, but can they discriminate against someone because they have "too much" education.? I would think that if they made this a written policy as opposed to an informal practice they may be opening themselves up for a lawsuit.
There has to be some way for new grad RNs to gain experience for advanced practice programs in such a way that it doesn't leave employers high and dry when all their new grads quit after a year. What about a lower-paying Post-BSN residency program that focuses on preparing nurses for grad school?
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I think this is absolutely rediculous and it seems that working conditions are not favorable for anyone else to stay, or it is WAY TOO EASY to get into your CRNA school!
*** I work there. Working conditions are fine. Can't speak to ease of entry for CRNA school, but I know 9 people who applied from my hospital, 7 got it, one got wait listed and one did not get it.
How many ICUs are there in this hospital?
*** Two, MICU/CCU and SICU.
Sure, every year our ICU has about 2 people that end up going but that does very little as we hire so many other nurses to take their place. Also, our ICU is such a great place to work that many nurses have been there 30+ years and would NEVER leave.
*** We also have lots of nurses who have been here a long time. This has only been noted to be a problem since the residency program was started.
We have 4 CRNA schools within a 50mi radius but we also have many great hospitals with many ICUs that people are interviewing from.
*** Not us. We are the only tertiary care center for well over a hundred miles in any direction.
I find it hard to believe that ALL your nurses are going to CRNA school.
*** I don't blame you. Nobody has said or implied that ALL our nurses are going to CRNA school. SO far, since I have worked here it is the graduates of the Critical Care Nurses Residency Program and not all of them, but a large percentage.
The school I want to apply to does and the manager refuses to write any recommendations for anyone without having 2 years experience in our unit.
*** As does our manager, but there are way around it like getting letter from house supervisors or working part time for another hospital and getting a letter from that manager.
Maybe the unit needs to hire more people in anticipation of replacing a few going on to grad school. Of course turnover is going to be higher in these areas but thats just a fact and no reason to deny BSNs the chance to apply.
*** I don't agree with this decision, however I have not seen where you or anyone else spoke out aginst those hospitals that refuse to hire new grad ADNs into their residency programs, even though some have been listed here. I wonder why that is?
All in all, sounds like a pretty weak solution to the problem
Specializes in Trauma ICU, Surgical ICU, Medical ICU.
Thanks for answering my questions, It makes sense that that many people would go to CRNA school with only 2 icus to pick from in the area. I have not seen residency programs listed on here (not that they aren't) to respond to or havent read the threads as I think that would be unfair too. I also dont respond to the whole ADN vs BSN thing because its like beating a dead horse. We all passed the same boards so I dont think it should make one bit of difference what you are. We all have the same licenses and I truly think you learn what you need to learn when you start working. Hopefully people make enough stink about it that they decide that it is a bad idea. At least you like your job and the conditions are favorable!
A novel approach to the problem but I can see thier point. I work a CVSICU and after 6-12 weeks of orientation 50% of our new hires apply to the local NA program within a year. In the time they do work on the unit they are constantly juggling thier schedule to accomodate one class or another. It seems that if you have a year in the post-op open heart unit you are almost a shoo-in to the program. My unit has become a prerequisite educational screening tool for the universities' MS in CRNA program. I don't agree with your new policy- I can just appriciate why they did it.
Instead of excluding BSNs, maybe the hospital should try to improve conditions so people want to stay.
tencat
1,350 Posts
Hmmmm....maybe that ICU can't keep people because the working conditions stink....there's a thought.
Instead of excluding BSNs, maybe the hospital should try to improve conditions so people want to stay.