BSN vs. ADN

happydog · Jul 17, 2000

For the record, in the stat of California, LVNs may has the same scope of practice as an RN (BSN or otherwise,) with the exception of: IV antibiotics and IV push. The may do assessments, RT, phlebotomy, IV starts, take MD orders, etc. It depends strictly on the facility, not the law. Also, education comes with experience, and one is learning everyday. A BSN is great, a masters wonderful, but do not berate those with a lesser "formal" education. I know plenty of BSN nurses that scare the sh*t out of me and would never ever want to be their patient. I know lots of CNA's that i would trust my life to. So, before one becomes too cocky about their formal education , ask yourself, what would you do without all the lesser educated that help make your shift bearable. If your are a nurse to make money, you are in the wrong profession. Didn't nursing start out as a vocation, anyway? And by the way, what's the name of the housekeeper on your shift?

Originally posted by jgnc:
Just for the record - your statement "clearly LPNs should not be paid the same..." In MANY areas of nursing, they DO do the same job! Secondly, your whole point was that all RNs are equivalent so they should all be paid the same, yet there are differences in education. How do you justify your "less education" quote as it applies to LPNs? There IS a difference between RN levels of education!

goldilocksrn · Jul 17, 2000

I agree that everyone who works hard, certifies in a specialty, furthers their education, or shows leadership in their job should be paid more. It goes back to showing nurses that we are a profession, and like other professions should be rewarded for our efforts.

I guess why I thought about this topic is because when I was in school, I saw fellow students in other majors that were compensated for their degrees. I just wonder, why not nursing. Why can't we be valued that way?

ERIsland · Jul 17, 2000

I am an ADN and was recently promoted to ER charge nurse. I hear grumblings from another nurse who was up for the position who happens to be a BSN nurse. She has lost out twice for this position (both times to an ADN) and she seems to think that she should be hired on her BSN alone. A leader is not about initials but about capability and ability. That this nurse doesn't "get that" makes me wonder about her degree. She has never addressed me about her concerns but gripes to fellow nurses in the department, many who are aware of reasons she should not be in a leadership position.

JaneRN · Jul 17, 2000

Originally posted by goldilocksrn:
I am a BSN and I feel that I should be paid more for my extra education. What do you think?

Well as an RN who was both ADN and BSN I got NO change in pay when I got my higher degree hospital say's RN's

are RN's so I feel as if I got my extra education for myself it wasn't to get more pay I just wished I did all 4 years at once and not 17 years apart. Taking classes with young people 19-30. Being older 40 I had to juggle work home school all at once. Just

remember if your hospital doesnot honor the change in schooling remember. Education is a honor and not all can afford to go 4 years and 2 years is all they can do that doesn't mean their not just as good of a nurse, used

only got ADN instead of BSN . like the hospital said (RN IS RN )

Mijourney · Jul 18, 2000

Hi,

Goldilocks, I do find myself occasionally irritated by the lack of financial compensation for my degree at the bedside. That's the reason I've posted on your topic so much. Some posters who are against additional pay for more education seem to imply that BSN nurses are not needed nor qualified to be at the bedside. Others imply that obtaining a BSN is merely a money issue. Of course, the same could be said for students or graduates from any nursing program. For those who support financial compensation for certification, how would you respond if administration discontinued that support? Would you still work on maintaining your certification year in and year out? For those who do not support additional financial compensation for BSN education, do you support compensation for certification? If by strange circumstances a CNS or NP, who also is an RN, was performing bedside care would you be in favor of paying him/her the same rate as everyone else?

I will write that I'm glad to know many of the ADN nurses I've encountered. These nurses along with many aides, diploma nurses (like me), and a few BSN and MS nurses have greatly enriched my practice. Thanks for all the posts so far. I have learned a lot. I have a better understanding of where I fit in the scheme of nursing and where we may be headed.

maikranz · Jul 18, 2000

Just a thought....

I'll bet that if you forwarded the

first three lines of your post to your

state's Board of Nursing, they'd have a different perspective on what constitutes "scope of practice" for a

LPN/LVN and a RN.

Originally posted by happydog:
For the record, in the stat of California, LVNs may has the same scope of practice as an RN (BSN or otherwise,) with the exception of: IV antibiotics and IV push. The may do assessments, RT, phlebotomy, IV starts, take MD orders, etc. It depends strictly on the facility, not the law. Also, education comes with experience, and one is learning everyday. A BSN is great, a masters wonderful, but do not berate those with a lesser "formal" education. I know plenty of BSN nurses that scare the sh*t out of me and would never ever want to be their patient. I know lots of CNA's that i would trust my life to. So, before one becomes too cocky about their formal education , ask yourself, what would you do without all the lesser educated that help make your shift bearable. If your are a nurse to make money, you are in the wrong profession. Didn't nursing start out as a vocation, anyway? And by the way, what's the name of the housekeeper on your shift?

nanjam · Jul 19, 2000

I have an experience similar to JaneRN. I received my ADN 20 years ago and unlike my original plans have not had the time, opportunity or finances come together at the right time until recent years to pursue and complete my BSN. The reasons I wanted my BSN were more personal fulfillment and the ability to move forward in my career. To be honest I have not gained much knowledge that would improve my direct patient care, if any. Good luck to all of us no matter what path we choose or when we are able to choose it.

fergus51 · Jul 22, 2000

I wonder if you all can tell me what you think about the situation here in BC.

Here you can either take three years of nursing and be a registered nurse (RN diploma) or you can stay for 4 years and get you Bachelor of Science in nursing. You can enter nursing straight from high school and the first 3 years of the program are the same for RN or BSN students. In the fourth year you do more community work and more practicum. All the courses except one sociology course are nursing courses (no basket weaving 101 or anything like that).

Our nursing association wants to make a BSN the minimun education to become a nurse. Nurses already working as RNs wouldn't have to worry about it, only new students. The nurses union on the other hand, disagrees and even wants to introduce a 2 year fast track program to an RN. 2 provinces have already made the 4 year program the minimun, but one province has a 2 year program. Do you all think that extra time as nursing students, TAKING NURSING COURSES (no bitter comments about BSNs taking basket weaving and geology) would have helped you when you started working?

Thanks for any imput

Tracy

bunky, BSN, RN · Jul 22, 2000

Hi Fergus!

Diploma from Ontario myself. I think of course the extra nursing courses are of a huge benefit and sometimes it shows. I've worked with both ADN's here, BSN's and RN diploma nurses. Of the BSN'S who graduated the same year as me, and started at the hospital with me, I did as well or better clinically that first year of working. The fast track program kind of scares me though Fergus.

fergus51 · Jul 23, 2000

Hi Bunky,

Thanks for the reply. I was just asking because I am a student in the BSN program mainly because everyone has drilled it into my head that I need the degree. The only problem I have is that I think they could do this course in a lot less time. I sometimes think whoever designed these courses thought students were about as smart as monkeys. I find we waste a lot of time doing stupid written assignments and being explained simple concept over and over (I had to listen to an hour of my instructor explain why it is ok to recap the needle before you've injected someone as opposed to after. Are we really that dumb?). The Manitoba program does 2 years straight (six semestres) and our three year program is also six semestres because we get summers off. I just wonder if a faster paced program might appeal to people like me (who don't like writing essays on feminism and things like that) or people who can't afford to take four years off work (like single parents). I just think that a lot of the BSN hype is just elitist academics talking, but seeing as I am taking that route I want to know what it will really get me. What worries you about the 2 year program? From the posts it sounds like the BSNs in the States only do 2 years of nursing courses. Or did I get the wrong impression?

fergus51 · Jul 23, 2000

Hi Bunky,

Thanks for the reply. I was just asking because I am a student in the BSN program mainly because everyone has drilled it into my head that I need the degree. The only problem I have is that I think they could do this course in a lot less time. I sometimes think whoever designed these courses thought students were about as smart as monkeys. I find we waste a lot of time doing stupid written assignments and being explained simple concept over and over (I had to listen to an hour of my instructor explain why it is ok to recap the needle before you've injected someone as opposed to after. Are we really that dumb?). The Manitoba program does 2 years straight (six semestres) and our three year program is also six semestres because we get summers off. I just wonder if a faster paced program might appeal to people like me (who don't like writing essays on feminism and things like that) or people who can't afford to take four years off work (like single parents). I just think that a lot of the BSN hype is just elitist academics talking, but seeing as I am taking that route I want to know what it will really get me. What worries you about the 2 year program? From the posts it sounds like the BSNs in the States only do 2 years of nursing courses. Or did I get the wrong impression?

ccu · Sep 18, 2000

Originally posted by goldilocksrn:
I am a BSN and I feel that I should be paid more for my extra education. What do you think?

You made the right choice. Here in Houston many of the hospitals in the medical center will no longer hire adn's for higher level care (icu, ccu ect.) The pay for higher level care is $2-$3 more per hour. In the long run your extra effort should pay off. Your oppertunities as a BSN are far more greater than a ADN's. Many of the ADN's I work with find it hard to return to school. I have nothing against adn's many of them are exceptional nurses. I do encourage all future nurses to persue a BSN.