This is my first post (obviously) on this forum, and I'm glad to be here. I've gleaned quite a lot reading the threads here, and now feel ready to seek advice on my situation.
I worked for a few years as an executive-level healthcare administrator for a primary care clinic for the uninsured. My experiences there convinced me that I wanted a clinical career, as I longed for the patient contact. I took the normal sequence of coursework to apply to medical school and did quite well, while taking additional courses to broaden my knowledge base and application credentials (patho, micro, A&P, pharm, numerous psych classes, med terminology, etc.). Well, once the time came around to apply to medical school last year, I decided it wasn't for me.
I'm an older student, and didn't like the idea of leaving my family in the trenches for 10+ years while I trained to become a physician, no matter how cool I thought the career would be--my family just matters more to me, and I don't want to miss my children's childhood.
After doing much research, having many discussions with personal friends, some who are MD's, some NP's, and others PA's, I have decided I want to seriously consider nurse anesthesia.
I have called programs, looked through brochures, and emailed program directors. What I am seeking from this community is help from those out in the field (as SRNA's or CRNA's) to guide me through the quick-route, if one exists.
There is a local ABSN program that I am going to apply to for next May. I am also looking at UPenn's direct-pathway BSN-MSN program as an option, but I haven't heard back from anyone there despite an email sent and a phone message left. And then I know I need a minimum of one year in ICU to even be considered for CRNA programs.
Realistically, what is the fastest track to CRNA? Is it possible to get an ICU job as a new grad BSN? Is it possible to get into a CRNA program with the one-year minimum work experience in ICU?
Ideally (yes, I realize few things ever work out ideally), I would like to go through the process systematically, and in the shortest required time frame (13 months ABSN, 12 months ICU, 24 months accelerated CRNA) and be out by the time I would have had I gone to medical school (minus residency).
Yes, in ACT practices MDAs "supervise" CRNAs. You need to read a lot more on supervision, billing, an opt out states before you can understand some of the billing and politics in anesthesia. The main reason that MDAs want to supervise is that essentially doubles their salary even though there has been shown no patient care benefit from CRNA supervision.
AANA website has a plethora of articles on billing and supervision of CRNAs.
This is my first post (obviously) on this forum, and I'm glad to be here. I've gleaned quite a lot reading the threads here, and now feel ready to seek advice on my situation.
I worked for a few years as an executive-level healthcare administrator for a primary care clinic for the uninsured. My experiences there convinced me that I wanted a clinical career, as I longed for the patient contact. I took the normal sequence of coursework to apply to medical school and did quite well, while taking additional courses to broaden my knowledge base and application credentials (patho, micro, A&P, pharm, numerous psych classes, med terminology, etc.). Well, once the time came around to apply to medical school last year, I decided it wasn't for me.
I'm an older student, and didn't like the idea of leaving my family in the trenches for 10+ years while I trained to become a physician, no matter how cool I thought the career would be--my family just matters more to me, and I don't want to miss my children's childhood.
After doing much research, having many discussions with personal friends, some who are MD's, some NP's, and others PA's, I have decided I want to seriously consider nurse anesthesia.
I have called programs, looked through brochures, and emailed program directors. What I am seeking from this community is help from those out in the field (as SRNA's or CRNA's) to guide me through the quick-route, if one exists.
There is a local ABSN program that I am going to apply to for next May. I am also looking at UPenn's direct-pathway BSN-MSN program as an option, but I haven't heard back from anyone there despite an email sent and a phone message left. And then I know I need a minimum of one year in ICU to even be considered for CRNA programs.
Realistically, what is the fastest track to CRNA? Is it possible to get an ICU job as a new grad BSN? Is it possible to get into a CRNA program with the one-year minimum work experience in ICU?
Ideally (yes, I realize few things ever work out ideally), I would like to go through the process systematically, and in the shortest required time frame (13 months ABSN, 12 months ICU, 24 months accelerated CRNA) and be out by the time I would have had I gone to medical school (minus residency).
Thanks in advance for your input and advice!
First let me start off by apologizing to you on behalf of some of the jerks that visit this site. I am not sure why some of my colleagues are so aggresive but I don't want you to think that this reflect majority of nurses. If this is your desire to follow the path of becoming a CRNA then go for it. If you already have a degree then do the Accelerated BSN program. If not, you can go for your associate but many hospitals are hiring BSN nurses. Also, you can get into an ICU as a new grad but competition is stiff. But, you can do it. I am confuse with some of the personalities that nursing and medicine attracts. I believe site like these were created to support one another. Disregard the negativity and go for your dream.
Was the information incorrect though? Doesn't matter the reputation of the site according to you. Just comment on whether or not the information posted is correct.
Another note: "works in collaboration with anesthesiologists, surgeons and other physicians.." Read up on CRNA supervision and opt-out laws.... Also read up on CRNA autonomy and independent practice...
Lots of people do this. It's one of the utilities of this forum, I believe: to gain information, to have discussions, to learn, to get advice, etc.
This thread has actually been very helpful for me. I have no reason to stop participating in a three I started, one which has had many insightful and productive posts, because a handful of posters have taken issue with a couple comments made. Closing the thread or moving on because of this seems like a disproportionate response.
I don't have a problem standing up to people when they are acting irrationally. I agree with you that most (probably all) of the people here know more than I do re: anesthesia. That's why I'm here, after all. However, much of the disagreement has had nothing to do with the actual practice of anesthesia, and more to do with semantics.
Nah. I'm not trying to teach anyone about their profession. I merely responded to someone accusing me of knowing, "absolutely nothing" about the profession of nurse anesthesia. This was a false accusation, so I countered it. Moreover, I got into a kerfuffle with someone who has rather extreme views, and expressed them in an adversarial way. I've never been an NP, PA, or MD/DO, but I have been the boss of them, and someone working in my clinic acting like that particular poster would have been called into my office and given her walking papers, to hell with what she thinks she knows about her profession. She exhibited unhealthy and unprofessional behavior, and, I apologize, but I would never stand for that behavior in my clinic, so I' not great at dealing with it here.
I get it, this is not a professional setting, but, rather, an anonymous, online forum, so I should expect people to act out more here than they probably do in real life. I know people use these forums to vent a lot of times, so I can handle it better in the future perhaps.
Again, I have been given great advice here from more people than otherwise, so, ultimately, this thread has been a success.
I see that you're still hung up on my poor choice of words. Let me clarify that I didn't literally mean that you knew "absolutely nothing" about CRNAs. I forgot how careful I have to be on these sites with my word choices. Now that we got that out of the way, I did not call you names, curse at you and I don't believe that I was disrespectful. If we were in the professional setting, we would not be having this discussion because I don't bring politics into the workplace. Even if I did, exactly what would you not stand for? I merely voiced my opinion and still stand by what I said. It's a great pet peeve of mine when people make statements about something that they aren't knowledgable about. I was in DC last weekend and the state capitol several months ago talking with legislators, attempting to prove that we're safe and capable of doing a job that we've been doing for over 150 years. Some of the legislators in DC didn't even want to meet with us "nurses." If you were a SRNA or CRNA and actually knew the true expertise and knowledge that a CRNA holds and that most run their cases independently with the MDA peeking in from time to time, you'd understand my frustration. I'm the first one to offer support to future SRNAs and I do wish you the best in your endeavors. However, this profession can't handle too many more CRNAs that don't view themselves as independent providers. That thought process is weakening the profession. The ASA would like the public to believe that AAs and CRNAs are interchangeable and CRNAs that aren't confident in their skills will only facilitate their cause. I've met several CRNAs that work in an ACT environment and are still great critical thinkers and excellent practitioners, so I'm not even suggesting that every CRNA should work independently. However, I do believe that ALL CRNAs should think independently and not use MDAs as a crutch because we don't have to. If you would quit focusing on semantics and my words choices maybe you can understand what I'm trying to say. Again, I'm not being harsh or disrespectful, just direct. That's how everyone was in the ICU and that's how everyone is in the OR. Oops...that's an absolute statement...99%. I haven't had one person that I've worked with label me as rude or unprofessional. I've heard a lot worse said to me in the OR, so I think you'd be pulling a lot of people to your office. I do apologize if my delivery rubbed you the wrong way but I can't say I apologize for my stance. Thankfully for me, we have more tactful posters that have said exactly what I intended and you appear to be more receptive. I guess I've gotta work on my political correctness. Guess I've gotten used to being beaten up on in the OR that it's rubbing off. Yikes!
Thanks for posting this--maybe now I can say I know something about the profession. And if anyone questions me, I'll just say that @wtbcrna taught me everything I know
You're really hung up on that. I certainly didn't mean that you knew "nothing." That must've really hurt your feelings.
One thing that we can agree on is that @wtbcrna is an excellent resource. I've learned a lot from him over the years.
Thanks for posting this--maybe now I can say I know something about the profession. And if anyone questions me, I'll just say that @wtbcrna taught me everything I know
Scary thought. :)
Ever hear that old saying about nurses eating their young? You're seeing a classic example in this thread. You're not even a nurse yet, and you're firmly established in a professional career, and yet you're treated as lower than pond scum because you don't bow down at the altar and show what is deemed to be appropriate humility even though you're asking perfectly reasonable questions.
And although folks like wtbcrna and others would have you believe that only a tiny fraction of CRNA's are practicing in ACT practices and are not to be considered "true" CRNA's if they are, quite the opposite would be the case.
BTW - AA's are not a dying profession, nor a new one. We've been around nearly 45 years now - I know, I know, it pales in comparison to 150 years of CRNA-dom, but then none of the CRNA's here are 150+ years old, so it's not like that makes any difference. Although small in numbers compared to CRNA's, our graduates as well as the number of states in which we practice, grows every year.
treefiddy is not a baby that needs coddling. He/She got his question answered, along with a forwarning. There is a weed out system, and he will be stratified.
Nursing is incredibly challenging--especially critical care nursing, the gateway to become a CRNA. When he transitions into the ICU, he will not receive much sympathy and/or handholding.
If an applicant looking to become a nurse anesthetist can't take heat on an internet message board, they won't make it past their first shift managing two CIWA pts. One needs to grow some skin, and work in the ICU as a CCRN to understand this.
Ever hear that old saying about nurses eating their young? You're seeing a classic example in this thread. You're not even a nurse yet, and you're firmly established in a professional career, and yet you're treated as lower than pond scum because you don't bow down at the altar and show what is deemed to be appropriate humility even though you're asking perfectly reasonable questions.
And although folks like wtbcrna and others would have you believe that only a tiny fraction of CRNA's are practicing in ACT practices and are not to be considered "true" CRNA's if they are, quite the opposite would be the case.
BTW - AA's are not a dying profession, nor a new one. We've been around nearly 45 years now - I know, I know, it pales in comparison to 150 years of CRNA-dom, but then none of the CRNA's here are 150+ years old, so it's not like that makes any difference. Although small in numbers compared to CRNA's, our graduates as well as the number of states in which we practice, grows every year.
Yes, JWK it is amazing that some CRNAs have high level of expectations even from our pre-SRNAs. I guess AAs do not enjoy that same level of expectations among their applicants or providers.
ACT practices make up around 65% of the total of anesthesia practices from the last statistic that I saw on the makeup of anesthesia practices. That percentage has tended to decrease significantly in states whenever that state changes to an opt-out state, and who knows maybe federal opt-out will be reimplemented when and if Hillary Clinton becomes president since her grandmother in-law and mother in-law were both nurse anesthetists. Federal opt-out would likely see an increase in amount of mixed independent and CRNA only practices further decreasing the demand for ACT practices and AAs.
The ASA has been successful in getting more states to allow AAs to practice. Time will tell how this eventually play out with CRNAs being the majority of anesthesia providers and the ones that provide the majority of care in the United States. AAs are only viable in one type of practice (ACTs) and since ACT practices are considered less economically viable than mixed independent practices or CRNA only practices it would take only small changes in how anesthesia billing is done with TEFRA requirements to make employing AAs economically unattractive.
Thank you for posting this thread. I am in the same position. I am a physical therapist and bored to tears. I just finished my BSN and am looking forward to the CRNA journey. I considered MD. My grades are good in both of my bachelor and masters degrees.
I don't think it will be easy, it hasn't been so far. But I want challenge, not easy! I'm in my mid 40s. I will be 48 when done. I worry about the infringement on family time. I also worry about not fulfilling my intellectual needs as well. It's a tough road no matter what. I wish you the best!
wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA
5,128 Posts
Yes, in ACT practices MDAs "supervise" CRNAs. You need to read a lot more on supervision, billing, an opt out states before you can understand some of the billing and politics in anesthesia. The main reason that MDAs want to supervise is that essentially doubles their salary even though there has been shown no patient care benefit from CRNA supervision.
AANA website has a plethora of articles on billing and supervision of CRNAs.