Being a Nurse for a Killer

Otessa, BSN, RN · Nov 7, 2009

What is this...High School?
Who made you judge & jury? What does anything surrounding anyone's situation detract from the job at hand? Airway, breathing circulation, bleeding, disability...
Do your job! The idea that your level of care would vary because of your own personal opinion is ridiculous. You're suppose to be a professional. Act like it.
Good Grief.

Unless you have had to care for a notorious murderer-that was convicted and on death row-then you really can't know how it feels to take care of someone truly evil.

otessa

annaedRN, RN · Nov 7, 2009

What is this...High School?
Who made you judge & jury? What does anything surrounding anyone's situation detract from the job at hand? Airway, breathing circulation, bleeding, disability...
Do your job! The idea that your level of care would vary because of your own personal opinion is ridiculous. You're suppose to be a professional. Act like it.
Good Grief.

Would you feel the same way if your patient had raped and killed your mom? We are professionals, but we are also moms, dads, husbands, wives, grandchildren, grandparents, siblings.......

RNperdiem, RN · Nov 7, 2009

From a nursing standpoint, I find the older guys who have been in prison a long time to be easier patients than most. "yes, ma'am", "no ma'am" and a polite reminder to remove aluminum cans(not allowed for prisoners) from the lunch trays are as demanding as a lot of these guys get.

I don't go probing for why someone is in prison either.

Katnip, RN · Nov 7, 2009

Would you feel the same way if your patient had raped and killed your mom? We are professionals, but we are also moms, dads, husbands, wives, grandchildren, grandparents, siblings.......

You wouldn't be asked to take care of someone who committed a violent crime against someone close to you.

And no, you should not bring your personal feelings into it. For all you know, some little old guy you're taking care may have killed or raped someone in has past and never got caught.

And again, the soldier who went on the shooting spree will face his judge and jury. His healthcare team are not it. You don't know anything at this point about his state of mental health at the time. Even psychiatrists have psychotic breaks.

You are obligated to give a high standard of nursing care. You do not have to become their friend in doing so.

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN · Nov 7, 2009

What is this...High School?
Who made you judge & jury? What does anything surrounding anyone's situation detract from the job at hand? Airway, breathing circulation, bleeding, disability...
Do your job! The idea that your level of care would vary because of your own personal opinion is ridiculous. You're suppose to be a professional. Act like it.
Good Grief.

This was completely uncalled for. The OP asked for opinions about dealing with a certain type of situation, they don't deserve to be ridiculed for asking a question, they didn't do anything wrong or unprofessional because as they said they have never even been in the situation. They don't need to be judge nor jury to know the facts are this person did kill and injure many people. FACT! People have real emotions and feelings, FACT! It's natural for someone to wonder what it might be like to be in this situation and how people typically respond to it. Maybe you should be professional and not ridicule your fellow nurses for asking a question you deam unworthy of asking!

To the OP, I have a personal experience to share that just happened last week as I was shadowing a nurse at the jail. I also had wonders like you that I went through before I went. I have a past history of being abused physically and sexually and I wondered how my reaction would be if I was in a situation with a child molester. I am generally the type of person that can't be rude or mean to someone if they are being nice or cordial to me. Even people that have screwed me over many time in the past, if they smile and say hi I will smile and say hi back. Now if someone is being rude or mean then I don't have a problem with being smug or rude. But I wondered if being around certain inmates would cause me the emotions regardless.

The Jail I shadowed out the nurses were allowed to know the crimes. I shadowed the nurse doing the high risk inmates. Lots of high violent inmates, inmates on lots of psych meds, child molesters and rapist and murders. (not many we don't have a lot of crime where I live).

The nurse had told me the various crimes people were in for when she was getting their meds ready to call them up to the cart. Unlike the high risk violent inmates that had meds passed through the food gap thing in the door, the child molesters although in solitaire for their protection were free to come up to the med cart on their own, this jail had open pod units. Anyway, I prepared myself to remain professional when it was time for the few inmates that were in for molestation to come up to the cart unsure how I would feel, when the man walked up to get his meds he was very courteous to the nurse and looked at me and smiled and said hello,(like a half smile, nothing smug, or overly happy, but just a courtious hello you might to with any stranger.) instinctively I smiled and said hello back. I was very surprised that even though I knew some of these people were what I would consider disgusting people that should not even be alive, when it came to their care and when they were acting civil, I was fine being in that situation and was able to seperate my feelings for their crimes, from my ability to provide care (or just being their watching in my case) to them. Now had they acted much different to me I might be posting something different, but that wasn't what happened. I would imagine it would be the same for a lot of people.

lorelei1973 · Nov 7, 2009

As horrifying as this crime was, this patient is a human, albeit of the Hannibal Lecter variety (psychiatrist? VERY creepy). If you work with the criminal psych population you have to be very detached from the circumstances that brought them to you. If you have a personal link, you must recuse yourself from the case. Otherwise, they come to you as a deeply disturbed individual with the same rights as every other patient, not someone who did something so reprehensible it affects your ability to do your job. If detachment proves impossible for a nurse, it's probably best to work in another area/specialty.

jnrsmommy · Nov 7, 2009

If it ever comes to the point where you do encounter a situation that you cannot put your personal feelings aside, the next professional thing to do is see if you have a co-worker that wouldn't mind switching assignments w/ you.

rnmi2004 · Nov 7, 2009

I've been the nurse for a patient who was in the local jail waiting for trail for murder. Surprisingly, it didn't really bother me. I didn't know many details of the crime and I didn't dwell on it. In general, prisoners are much easier to deal with that many of my patients -- they're in the presence of a guard, who will keep their behavior in check.

sharpeimom · Nov 7, 2009

as a senior nursing student, i did a rotation at the university's psych facility, where i met a man just a few years older than i was. he was being evaluated before trial, and he absolutely gave me the willies to the point that i could scarcely observe as was my day's assignment. he was an accused child molester and had decapitated a cat. shudder! i had a different assignment 3 days later and did my very best to forget him. two months later, i began my va rotation. guess who my second assignment was?

yep... he'd been transferred because more details had emerged and they apparently stemmed from his tours of duty in viet nam. he tried to follow me everywhere, which was unnerving and creepy. my instructor was sympathetic but firm. she said i would have to learn how to deal with forensic patients so i might as well get on with it.

i graduated and a couple of years later, was hired at our state mental hospital. when i had been there about 3 months, i got my permanent building assignment. it was a locked forensic psych ward. guess who greeted me on the other side?! i was told to gradually review the patient files. i wish with all my heart i'd skipped his. without going into a lot of detail, among other things, he was a cannibal. :eek:

there were several other very ill men there who were very difficult, but just as many seemed like ordinary people that you could have imagined sitting in your living room, despite their heinous crimes.

i guess the point of this rambling is that you must deal with all kinds of people, don't turn your back, take another person with you if you feel unsafe, and never let them see your fear or emotions. many will interpret kindness or a smile as weakness, so be matter of fact.

kathy

sharpeimom:paw::paw:

safiyarozz · Nov 7, 2009

Hi All-
I'm sure most of you have seen the news and footage from the Ft. Hood shooting. I guess when I saw this, I could not imagine having to take care of that shooter .
Have any of you ever had to take care of someone like this? How do you deal with something like this ethically? I have never had to deal with anything like this, but could not imagine doing so. I have close ties to the military and this story breaks my heart .
I was just wondering if anyone on here had to deal with something like taking care of a killer or such. And, can you (legally) refuse to give care to someone in an instance such as this? Or would you think that they would just find another nurse to provide appropriate care if you were so opposed to it?
Just thought it would be an interesting question to look into!
Thanks!
~JJ

As a nurse it should not matter to you what his past actions are simply to help in the process of healing and nothing more lest he is an obvious threat to safety.Your ethics do not interfere with such situations.

safiyarozz · Nov 7, 2009

Sounds like you're the judge and jury now. It was just an honest question, no need to berate.

The OP is not a patient so your statement really holds no grounds or validity.

Pardon the double-post.

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN · Nov 7, 2009

The OP is not a patient so your statement really holds no grounds or validity.
Pardon the double-post.

Actually I think it does. It seems a bit hypocritical to be hammering another person about being someones judge or jury all while judging THAT person. (their is a pot kettle saying coming to mind) Only difference is, the OP merely ASKED a question, didn't actually DO anything, and the person that they asked about did in fact do the crime. Judging is judging period, and I would be willing to bet every person has been guilty of judging one person or another at some point.

I would also be willing to bet that Emergency nurse has in fact judged at least in his mind, some of his patients that have come into the ER whether he owned up to it or not, it's human nature that I have yet to meet one person to be exempt from it. There are countless threads on this very board judging different patients, judging them for being overweight, judging them for being drug seekers etc. etc.