Becoming an NP with little to no nursing experience??

Nursing Students NP Students

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Hello to all!!! I have worked as a parmamedic for 20 years, have a B.A. in Economics, and I wanted to advance my career in healthcare. I was originally looking to pursue the PA route, but for certain practical reasons (including my union not helping to pay for it) I have been looking at other options, nursing/NP.

I was very excited to learn of a school near me that has a combined BSN/NP program for people with non-nursing bachelor degrees. I was about to start looking deeper into this program when a good friend of mine who is a member of an interview committee at a nearby hospital told me that I shouldn't do the program because I would have trouble getting a job.

The reason stated was because I wouldn't have been seen as having "paid my dues" as a nurse first.

Is this true?

I could understand why someone might feel that way about someone who went through this type of program never having worked in healthcare before. However, I like to think that to a certain degree I've paid my dues (I know it isn't nursing, but from a time in healthcare perspective).

My friend did say that I might be considered an exception to that rule. The program is at a VERY well known school and I was told by my friend even then it wouldn't matter. I was wondering what people here thought regarding this topic.

Thank you for any guidance you can provide.

According to this NSO newsletter published last year, it costs 2.5 times more, on average, to defend an NP than a staff RN in a lawsuit ($20K for an NP versus $8K for an RN).

Since they're paying more money to defend and cover NP liability cases, it seems pretty obvious to me that NP's are being found liable more than staff RN's. Of course, that makes sense with the additional responsibilities that NP's have.

:typing

Hmm, It seems you are jumping to conclusions. Here is what you are saying:

--> It costs more money to defend np = Greater frequency NP being sued

That is not what the article says, by any means. Nurse Practitioners have greater purview than RN's so their malpractice rate and liability WILL BE HIGHER. It doesnt mean that they get sued with greater frequency as you state.

So, getting back to the original topic at hand ... it seems logical that NP's with more nursing experience would probably be better ... due to the additional potential liability here.

:typing

Again, I dont follow your logic. I have yet to see proof that Nurse Practitioners are sued with greater frequency than RN's, moreover I have yet to see proof that NPs with less experience are being sued MORE than NP's with more experience. Also we all have dont we? Let the malpractice carrier worry about the liability, I am not going to be held hostage for the rest of my life because I am worried about getting sued.

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She walked away from graduation right into a NP position with no prior RN experience whatsoever: so it can be done.

And if she's treating infections, suturing lacerations, diagnosing the sniffles, I'm not sure bedside nursing care is really necessary.

Exactly TNTRN -- Great points made, it is done all the time. The problem is that you have the "good old boys" mentality and people who dont want you to do something because they didnt do it like that back in the day, for whatever reason, they think you should have to do the exact same thing they did. Like who would want to eat crap if they didnt have to you know what I mean?

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Again, I dont follow your logic. I have yet to see proof that Nurse Practitioners are sued with greater frequency than RN's, moreover I have yet to see proof that NPs with less experience are being sued MORE than NP's with more experience. Also we all have malpractice insurance dont we? Let the malpractice carrier worry about the liability, I am not going to be held hostage for the rest of my life because I am worried about getting sued.

There is greater potential liability, period. Let the malpractice carrier worry about the liability? Ok ... wait until they take your house when the insurance taps out with a multi-million dollar award.

If you don't feel you need the extra experience, ok.

But I do.

:typing

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There is greater potential liability, period. Let the malpractice carrier worry about the liability? Ok ... wait until they take your house when the insurance taps out with a multi-million dollar award.

If you don't feel you need the extra experience, ok.

But I do.

:typing

Yes, there is greater potential liability, that a fact. You pay more for malpractice, that is a fact, you have more liability coverage, that is also a fact. Because I have alot of experience with personal injury cases I understand how the cases work.....The great majority of injury and malpractice cases are SETTLED and the lawyer will only go after what the insurance carrier has, how often do you see hospitals going out of business because someone gets sued? Its because its a much more lengthy legal process to go after someones personal assets and it is rarely done. I mean if what you are saying is true, for instance..why arent houses changing hands left and right after automobile accidents, i have seen some severe injuries resulting from automobile accidents yet I dont see the plantiff living in the defendants house. There is a very good reason for this, its because the cases practically always settle and the attorney go after the guy with the DEEP POCKETS - Again, because I have alot of friends who are attorneys I know this.

Exactly, I don't fee the extra experience is necessary, at all. I feel it is a waste of time to work in an environment I dont want to work in because someone else thinks I should have more experience. I dont need to so can you tell me why I would bother?

Also, I feel it is a waste of time to worry about getting sued because I am trying to help someone feel better....additionally I feel it is a waste of time to

worry about getting SUED and having my house taken away, even though I have malpractice....a double waste of time.

If you feel you need the extra experience, that is fine for you, but i dont need it.

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Specializes in Palliative Care, NICU/NNP.

Personally I think the idea is ludicrous! I became an RN first, worked in my area for several years and went to NNP school.

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Personally I think the idea is ludicrous! I became an RN first, worked in my area for several years and went to NNP school.

Yeah, well if it was really really really crazy like everyone is making it out to be they wouldnt offer the option. But since they do, take advantage of it.

"When I was young boy I used to walk 20 miles to school, even in the snowstorms!"

:-)

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Specializes in Accepted...Master's Entry Program, 2008!.
Yeah, well if it was really really really crazy like everyone is making it out to be they wouldnt offer the option. But since they do, take advantage of it.

"When I was young boy I used to walk 20 miles to school, even in the snowstorms!"

:-)

Exactly! If it was so horrible, grad programs for direct entry would never have been approved.

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Thank you for this insight because it seemed very strange to me that NP's with more experience would actually be rated less favorably. You might expect them to be rated the same but worse? That would be truly bizarre. It doesn't make much sense.

:typing

There is a similar debate in the PA field. There are programs that actively recruit students without medical experience. The claim is that they do not have to break the students of their bad habits. They can "mold" the students in their own program. The interesting thing in the PA programs is that inexperienced PA's do the same as experienced PA's on the certifying exam. Is there similar data for NP's (if you actually believe that certifying exams measure clinicial competence)?

David Carpenter, PA-C

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Hmm..I believe you are making a big assumption. I mean, if I wanted to assume things from the article...i could make the assumption that the reason why the seasoned nurses scored lower from the physicians standpoint is that they have been out of school longer and have not kept on top of their continuing education. So if I assume this, it makes sense to me why the younger nurses scored better in terms of how the collaborating physician rated their skills, the physician viewed them as more competant, i.e having a greater skillset. But this line of reasoning would be assumings things -- in looking on a whole -->

Did you look at the instrument used to analyze the data? The Nurse Practitioner Skills Inventory is reliable and valid with repect to assessing the skills of an NP, kind of hard to argue with that.

Also you are not examining the article collectively, you are taking one area of assessment(physicians), drawing a conclusion from an assumption and completely dispelling the other salient parameter by which nurses rated competancy(Self report).

No study can be perfect obviously and people see things in different ways. Regardless, this was a study whereby empirical data demonstrated that the level of competancy of an inexperienced APRN was on the level of an experienced APRN, i guess that is the bottom line.

Depending on the situation, the physician assessment may be appropriate. While there is disagreement, a significant proportion of NP's are employed by physicians so it would be nice to have them have a decent opinion of NP's clinical skills.

I find it interesting that this article which I will point out is an abstract not a pear reviewed article. There have been other articles that have found different results. I would reference this one:

Log In Problems

There is also an unpublished study that has been referenced a couple of times that purports to show a negative corrolation between self confidence as an NP and experience as a nurse.

David Carpenter, PA-C

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Specializes in ACNP-BC.
Depending on the situation, the physician assessment may be appropriate. While there is disagreement, a significant proportion of NP's are employed by physicians so it would be nice to have them have a decent opinion of NP's clinical skills.

I find it interesting that this article which I will point out is an abstract not a pear reviewed article. There have been other articles that have found different results. I would reference this one:

Log In Problems

There is also an unpublished study that has been referenced a couple of times that purports to show a negative corrolation between self confidence as an NP and experience as a nurse.

David Carpenter, PA-C

Thanks for referencing that article. I love to read about new NPs. Can you tell I'm an NP student or what? :)

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There is a similar debate in the PA field. There are programs that actively recruit students without medical experience. The claim is that they do not have to break the students of their bad habits. They can "mold" the students in their own program. The interesting thing in the PA programs is that inexperienced PA's do the same as experienced PA's on the certifying exam. Is there similar data for NP's (if you actually believe that certifying exams measure clinicial competence)?

David Carpenter, PA-C

Yes David, check out the thread, in it you will find a link to a study that said there was no difference between the skills of experienced NP's vs novice NP's, like I said earlier, its just the good old boy mentality that some people think you should have to eat crap because they had to back in the day. But it makes no difference really, people will use every excuse they can come up with to justify a position, but the facts should be what makes the ultimate decision, and I think in this instance, the facts have spoken.

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Depending on the situation, the physician assessment may be appropriate. While there is disagreement, a significant proportion of NP's are employed by physicians so it would be nice to have them have a decent opinion of NP's clinical skills.

I find it interesting that this article which I will point out is an abstract not a pear reviewed article. There have been other articles that have found different results. I would reference this one:

Log In Problems

There is also an unpublished study that has been referenced a couple of times that purports to show a negative corrolation between self confidence as an NP and experience as a nurse.

David Carpenter, PA-C

Hmm, i cant access the article Ill check it out later. Why is it unpublished? lol.

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