Band 5 to band 7 - how long??

GrumpyRN, NP · Jul 25, 2018

OK, I'll bite;

I find this very interesting.

You must do, you are answering a 2 month old post that was 5 years old before that as your introduction to Allnurses.

Firstly the manager whom employes is entlied to set there requirements based on there experience

Managers can employ who they like but they don't always employ the right person.

however, I have been qualified 5 years 2 and half spent at band 6 in 3 different nurse specialist roles, spend 2 years on acute ward after few months in charge also worked in prison for 6months
I am now a band 7

You were a Band 6 for 2 and a half years in 3 different specialist roles? What happened to consolidating your knowledge and experience?

Being a Band 7 means nothing - see my point about managers above.

I suppose experience vs years qualified is debatable.

Only to people without the experience.

I worked with many nurses with lots of experience in years but are absolutely terrible.

Yeah, we all do.

So I suppose its how you define experience and what the individual has done within those years

The knowledge or skill acquired by a period of practical experience of something, especially that gained in a particular profession. (My Bold)

experience | Definition of experience in English by Oxford Dictionaries

I come fro. specialised environment so it's more about academic qualifications and experience in practice not years.

Yeah... I Don't believe that for one minute.

Also i think what is important is someones passion and drive for development both the service and professionally - most 7 and 8 jobs are hard to recruit to so development is key.

Yes I agree, but if Band 7 and 8 posts are hard to fill then you should be looking at why.

PS Welcome to Allnurses, I hope you enjoy your time here.

Jakexx · Jul 25, 2018

Thanks for your reply.

I will never win with you experience vs years debate.

Inrelation to some of your points - I learn and absorb move on

Consolidation would be more appropriate if I wanted to stay however my generation of nurses generally don't just stay in one place.

I suppose in someway you have attempted to say I don't have the experience or skills for my role this is your objective opinion which is not based on real evidence see my patients and there outcomes then your argument wud be nill and avoid.

Just gotta be greatful that nurses like yourself and the others have retired or will do soon so our profession can grow

GrumpyRN, NP · Jul 26, 2018

I will never win with you experience vs years debate.

Again, the Dunning-Kruger effect. I have 35 years experience in nursing plus 10 years before that in industry. As stated previously I have management experience and qualifications (outwith the NHS). I, and also XB9S and others have seen the "high fliers" over the years, the people promoted past their level of incompetence because they had some qualification that was thought useful at the time. I have ended up having to sort out the mess left by these people when you have to hold their hands while they learn exactly what to do on a job that they were supposedly able to just step into.

So no, you will not win with me in that particular argument.

Inrelation to some of your points - I learn and absorb move on
Consolidation would be more appropriate if I wanted to stay however my generation of nurses generally don't just stay in one place.

So you have a superficial level of knowledge rather than an in depth level where you can be expert.

Benner described 5 levels of nursing experience as;

Novice

Advanced beginner

Competent

Proficient

Expert

You seem to be happy staying at Advanced Beginner or at best Competent.

Nurses have always moved around to gain knowledge and experience - it is nothing special to "your generation."

I suppose in someway you have attempted to say I don't have the experience or skills for my role this is your objective opinion which is not based on real evidence see my patients and there outcomes then your argument wud be nill and avoid.

I said no such thing. However as you have brought it up;

Because I have skills, knowledge and experience, I can look at your writing and point out that your grammar, spelling and punctuation are appalling. You do not seem to understand the difference between "there, their or they're." My argument would be null and void. Not as you wrote it. In relation is two words - not one, as is some way and there should be full stops after sentences.

Are you sure you have qualifications - my primary school teachers (never mind my university) would have failed me for such basic errors.

The reason I am being a bit petty is because of the next sentence you wrote.

Just gotta be greatful that nurses like yourself and the others have retired or will do soon so our profession can grow

This is nasty and ageist. It is spiteful and stupid. Why did you not just go all out and say when we die?

Oh, and you cannot even get your insults correct. Gotta should be got to, again two words not one. Grateful not greatful is how the word should be spelt.

Of course you could just be trolling this whole time, that would explain a lot, however I will take you at face value for the present.

osceteacher · Jul 26, 2018

I can see what Nelfid was saying, there was a really patronising sounding ending to the 5 year old post from XB9S. If someone said Maturity and respect were things I could benefit from acquiring I would tell them where to go very impolitely. Who the hell are you to suggest I am not mature or lack respect?

'Friendly advice'...

Experience is massive and 3 years as a qualified nurse would definitely not have been enough, so my advice would have been more about that and not about telling someone they lack the ability to communicate with dignity and respect. But there are plenty of nurses with less experience that I would take over someone who had decades of it. Its not the be all and end all.

GrumpyRN, NP · Jul 27, 2018

I can see what Nelfid was saying, there was a really patronising sounding ending to the 5 year old post from XB9S. If someone said Maturity and respect were things I could benefit from acquiring I would tell them where to go very impolitely. Who the hell are you to suggest I am not mature or lack respect?

And XB9S clarified that perhaps the wording was wrong but the content wasn't.

But there are plenty of nurses with less experience that I would take over someone who had decades of it. Its not the be all and end all.

I agree, but in the context of this discussion experience is what we are talking about and then I get told that my generation should just go. Sorry but my generation are keeping the NHS going, we are the ones who remember what the NHS actually is - not the failing business that has been brought about by government policy.

TakingALook · Dec 17, 2022

Sorry to comment 4 years after the last post, but I have to say, as an experienced worker from another field looking into nursing, I find this thread is pretty distressing.

Is this what nurse culture is like in real life?--with older nurses bullying younger ones because they're jealous at the idea of newer nurses progressing efficiently in their early careers through active development of skills and knowledge?

GrumpyRN, NP · Dec 18, 2022

14 hours ago, TakingALook said:

worker from another field looking into nursing,

You are a "worker from another field," if you want to know what nursing is about then you need to become a nurse or talk to real life nurses.

14 hours ago, TakingALook said:

with older nurses bullying younger ones because they're jealous at the idea of newer nurses progressing efficiently in their early careers through active development of skills and knowledge?

Where in any of this old thread is there bullying? What there is, is experienced nurses who have been there, seen it, done it and know that nothing, and I will repeat this, nothing, beats experience and knowledge in healthcare.

On 7/25/2018 at 6:44 PM, Jakexx said:

Just gotta be greatful that nurses like yourself and the others have retired or will do soon so our profession can grow

That sentence is the only actual bullying in the whole thread and it was a younger nurse being nasty to older nurses.

TakingALook · Dec 18, 2022

This forum at least claims that it is also for "pre-students"--people considering becoming a student of nursing. If other participants here have similar views to you of not thinking the forum should include members who are trying to decide whether to enter nursing, then perhaps this is still the wrong forum for me regardless of what it says on the tin. But I haven't had a chance yet to assess what other members here think on the subject, so I may give it a few more days before deciding whether to keep my account.

Obviously I won't be able to contribute much here about nursing beyond asking questions, but it's possible I might have questions that other potential nurses would want to see answered.

5 hours ago, GrumpyRN said:

What there is, is experienced nurses who have been there, seen it, done it and know that nothing, and I will repeat this, nothing, beats experience and knowledge in healthcare.

Experience and knowledge are two separate things. Sometimes they are correlated. Sometimes they are anti-correlated. It depends on the efficacy of the training, the range of experience, the appropriateness of insights or strategies learned from those experiences, and various other factors. This is such a universal feature for so many skills/knowledge-based careers that I feel it must also be true for nursing, and it is consistent with what I've experienced as both a patient and as a health researcher.

On 7/27/2018 at 11:50 AM, GrumpyRN said:

and then I get told that my generation should just go.

I am sorry people have conveyed such messages to you or have made you feel unvalued. That was wrong of them. Hitting back by trying to make new nurses feel less valued is probably not the most productive coping strategy, but I can understand that it comes from a place of pain.

I hope your work environment becomes more supportive of you. Every worker who tries their best deserves to be supported and valued for their work.