B&M vs Online

Nursing Students NP Students

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I see a whole lot of hate for the online Nurse Practitioner programs. I'm wondering if anyone has any statistics regarding poor performance based on whether a NP went the traditional route versus online?

Or are we assuming that they are lesser simply because they "must be" inferior?

Personally, I don't think that anyone should be going through an NP program without at least 3-4 years of solid nursing experience. I'm far more concerned about a young NP straight out of school who has no real-world healthcare experience than I am about an experienced RN going the online route for their NP.

Thoughts?

And to disclose, I am one of those online, for-profit school NP students that seem to draw all the negative attention. Of course, I've also been a nurse for about 14 years and have been in hospital administration for the last several years.

Wow, you just do not get it. What I am saying is the content that is taught at NP school is watered down. It lacks the depth that I would like out of a degree. The fact that you're understanding the material is great. I want much more than just to get the minimum from NP school. So moral of the story is yes the amount of time does matter. Especially if you want more than just the fluff information that NP school gives you. Good luck in your endeavors. NP knowledge, unfortunately, will never be enough for me.

Ok. You do realize this is an NP forum, right? (students/FNPs...) so if you're not interested in NP knowledge, why become an NP? -- That seems counter-intuitive, to be honest. I am very much interested in "NP knowledge" -- and knowledge in general, and thus I continue learning. Or are you under the assumption that all "learning" takes place in an academic environ? -- I've been a nurse 15 years, in management for 12, and I can attest (as it should be) that those 15 years of experience have taught me far more than 6 years of higher education. No new doctor knows as much as an experienced one, as no NP rockets out of their program knowing all there is to know, either -- the thought is ludicrous, in fact. If you think that another few years of formal academic training is needed before someone enters practice, we'll have to agree to disagree. I'd much rather have an NP who had 6-7 years of schooling (which is what it takes to get your RN and then progress through NP school) and was in practice for 2-3 years than someone fresh out of an extended course of study who was entirely green. Clinicals only teach you so much. It's when you are actually doing the job that you learn the most.

Have you ever considered, that for primary care, that the medical school model might be a little over-kill? Give it some thought. There are studies out there that indicate OUTCOMES are the same for NPs vs MDs in primary care and NONE that show the opposite. Are we concerned with what our patients' outcomes are or merely thinking that more formal education must be better, well, just because?

Hmm. Maybe we just learn faster than you? I have never had to spend 40+ hours a week "studying" -- not for my BSN and not for my FNP (thus far). I can't even imagine having to study that hard for something. Certainly, there is whole lot of content to go over, but I'm a rapid reader and tend to remember content. How many times are you having to go over material before you "get it"? Now, things are more difficult, taking online courses, because the content isn't spoon-fed to you like it is by attending a class, listening to lectures in real-time, with real-time Q&A. That's easy. Still, those lectures don't make up a full day, by any means at a B&M program. How much are you studying after attending classes? -- if it's hours on hours, then I really feel kind of bad for you. That's way more effort than I would need, in all honesty, to absorb content.

There is much more discipline, self-motivation, and "work" that goes in to on-line courses. But, I expect that there would be, given the format. And I'm fine with putting in the time/effort required to be so disciplined. But it's not taking me as much time as it's obviously taking you -- different learners learn at different speeds, I guess.

I LOL at your thought that time spent studying correlates with being a better provider. In my experience, that doesn't hold true. Just as it didn't hold true in RN school. Knowledge/skill/experience is what makes for a good provider, IMO.

Haha. Someone completely missed the point. In fact, you perfectly illustrated our major complaint with NP programs. So medical students and PA students who go to school full-time and study/read for hours upon hours each week, are just not as smart as you are. How about NP programs are way too easy and don't require you to know very much.

I'm seriously incredulous at this comment. It just so clearly demonstrates the problems with NP education.

Specializes in Neurology, Psychology, Family medicine.

Dodongo: Thank you, for catching that ;). I'll leave it at this. You don't know what you don't know. If all we care about is minimal outcomes regarding top ten diseases in primary care then good for us NP's for keeping up. Good luck when something rare comes in that can be treated in primary care but is instead referred out because it wasent covered in our limited base knowledge.

Specializes in Neurology, Psychology, Family medicine.

Also experience is important but so is general knowledge from academic study. Doesn't matter if you have 100 years experience. If you don't learn it you will consistently over look things. That is directly related to our minimum competency.

Also experience is important but so is general knowledge from academic study. Doesn't matter if you have 100 years experience. If you don't learn it you will consistently over look things. That is directly related to our minimum competency.

How would you possibly NOT learn "it" if you've encountered it over and over again with your "100 years experience"? Seriously? -- You think reading about something once in a book (and trying to memorize it's characteristics among the thousands of other things you are dedicated to memorizing) is better than dealing with it as part of your career over many years? --- That seems very dangerous to me. I'll take the 100 years of experience/skill/knowledge any day.

Specializes in Neurology, Psychology, Family medicine.

Lol. Encountered it over and over. I'm not talking about the common presentations. I guess we will agree to disagree. I'd take knowing what to look for opposed to not recognizing it from lack of education base, but to each their own.

So scary there are people like this practicing medicine.

Specializes in Psych/Mental Health.

I get much more out of a B&M courses than online, and I am highly self motivated. I also think online discuss posts are the biggest waste of time. I'm not against online programs because there are strong online NP programs such as UND and Vanderbilt. However, I will never touch for-profit programs with a 10-foot pole. Unless I'm very sick and have no other choice, I will never see, precept, or hire anyone from a for-profit NP program. I don't care if that person has 100 years of RN or NP experience.

Hmm. Maybe we just learn faster than you? I have never had to spend 40+ hours a week "studying" -- not for my BSN and not for my FNP (thus far). I can't even imagine having to study that hard for something. Certainly, there is whole lot of content to go over, but I'm a rapid reader and tend to remember content. How many times are you having to go over material before you "get it"? Now, things are more difficult, taking online courses, because the content isn't spoon-fed to you like it is by attending a class, listening to lectures in real-time, with real-time Q&A. That's easy. Still, those lectures don't make up a full day, by any means at a B&M program. How much are you studying after attending classes? -- if it's hours on hours, then I really feel kind of bad for you. That's way more effort than I would need, in all honesty, to absorb content.

There is much more discipline, self-motivation, and "work" that goes in to on-line courses. But, I expect that there would be, given the format. And I'm fine with putting in the time/effort required to be so disciplined. But it's not taking me as much time as it's obviously taking you -- different learners learn at different speeds, I guess.

I LOL at your thought that time spent studying correlates with being a better provider. In my experience, that doesn't hold true. Just as it didn't hold true in RN school. Knowledge/skill/experience is what makes for a good provider, IMO.

1. you are not in practice yet so the opinion on study vs provider ability is not worth a grain of salt

2. if you are at a for profit online np school you are probably not learning what you need to learn.

3. the studies you refer to only count like 5 diagnoses, out of thousands in equality between NP and MD.

4. do you even know what med students do in clinicals? third year I had to manipulate the laproscope and was suturing with the surgeon walking me through it. That is experience. Also rounded on all his patients before he got there. Same goes for every other rotation. Why would you place a dichotomy between clinicals and experience.. do you not know that you gain experience in clinicals????

5. before you diagnose a disease you at least have to know it exists. Tons of NPs who rotated in the hospital I was at did not even know of HALF the diagnoses we learn in medical school. You cant really diagnose something you haven't heard of no?

6. If you think you will learn everything at your pajama online for profit you are wrong.

7. book knowledge, done thoroughly, greatly speeds clinical learning.

8. How are physicians green exactly when they land his or her first job? 6-7k clinical hours + 3-7 years of residency= no experience????

I fail to see the logic in your post sir or ma'am

Jeez these nurses that have never written a prescription in his or her life think they know it all....

The one part of your post I do believe is that you were in management. Only somebody in that section of the hospital could be this out of touch with reality

Prelift - you provide no evidence, just make unsubstantiated assertions. Then you tell me to stop debating. Your argument is weak, so you attack me. Pathetic.

You provide one anecdotal example. As an NP with an MSN you should know that is meaningless. It is not evidence.

Stepney, NP salaries vary by location. Baltimore is a very reasonable cost of living area and yes, a brand new PMHNP can make $150 K there. Most new grad NPs in Baltimore will start at around $90K. A decent 1 BR apt in a good area rents for $800 and up. I am working in rural California and it is even cheaper than Baltimore and I'm making $90K as a new grad NP and will be making $140K within 18 months if I meet performance objectives.

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