Autism, mercury and cover up???

lisamc1RN, LPN · Jun 23, 2005

Oh good! Someone else started the conversation. I was going to, if nobody had. There are some accusations going on saying that there is a coverup. I guess we'll see.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8243264/

Six out of every 1,000 kids has autism, and nobody knows exactly why. But guest Robert F. Kennedy Jr., said in an interview on the 'Scarborough Country' program on Tuesday that part of the blame needs to fall on the government. It has to do with a drug called Thimerosal.

Kennedy Jr., a senior attorney for the Natural Resources Defense Counsel, and author of "Deadly Immunity," an article about the investigation into a possible connection between Thimerosal and Autism in the current issue of Rolling Stone, talked with Joe about his findings.

To read an excerpt of their interview, continue to the text below. To watch the interview, click on the video link above.

SCARBOROUGH: Let's talk about Thimerosal. ... There are a lot of people, a lot of Americans very concerned about the impact of this drug, which is found in vaccines, and how it causes autism. Talk about that.

KENNEDY: That's right. Thimerosal is a preservative that was put in vaccines back in the 1930s. Almost immediately after it was put in, autism cases began to appear. Autism had never been known before. It was unknown to science. Then the vaccines were increased in 1989 by the CDC and by a couple of other government agencies.

SCARBOROUGH: OK, let me stop you there. That's an important date. And I will tell you why.

My son, born in 1991, has a slight form of autism called Asperger`s. When I was practicing law and also when I was in Congress, parents would constantly come to me and they would bring me videotapes of their children, and they were all around the age of my son or younger. So, something happened in 1989.

KENNEDY: Exactly. What happened was the vaccine schedule was increased. We went up from receiving about 10 vaccines in our generation to these kids receive 24 vaccines. And they all had this Thimerosal in them, this mercury. And nobody bothered to do an analysis of what the cumulative impact of all that mercury was doing to kids.

As it turns out, we are injecting our children with 400 times the amount of mercury that FDA or EPA considers safe. A child on his first day that he is born is injected with a Hepatitis B shot. Under EPA guidelines, he would have to be 275 pounds to safely absorb that shot.

SCARBOROUGH: And yet, we are just constantly pumping our kids with these vaccines. Where is the federal government in all of this?

KENNEDY: What happened was that, in 1988, one in every 2,500 American children had autism. Today, one in every 166 children has autism. And, plus, one in six have other kinds of learning disorders, other kinds of neurological disorders, speech delay, language disorders, ADD, hyperactivity, that all seem to be connected, that are all connected, the science shows are all connected to autism-to Thimerosal.

SCARBOROUGH: You know, Bobby, what we've always found, you and could debate 1,000 different issues, whether it's Terri Schiavo or the environment. I think we would agree on the environment. But, in this case, you have got the federal government coming in saying, well, there's no good science. And, of course, in politics, science always gets diluted. Why hasn't the federal government stepped up and worked more, because listen, Bobby, I can't prove it tonight. You can't prove it, but, intuitively, you look at the spike. You look at what happened with Thimerosal. There's no doubt in my mind-maybe it's two years from now. Maybe it's five years from now. Maybe it's 10 years from now. We are going to find out Thimerosal causes, in my opinion, autism.

-------------------------

I am very glad that this is coming to the forefront for discussion. As the mother of child with Asperger's Syndrome ( a high functioning autism) I really want answers to why my son is the way he is. I want to know why there are increased autism spectrum disorders that correspond to the increase in vaccinations with thimeresol. All the answers I've heard from those who want me to believe thimeresol is harmless have not been satisfactory answers. Now, there are people who are beginning to call the science used to base our vaccinating with thimeresol preservatives on as "junk science". Wow. I am not anti-vaccine, but I sure as heck am antithimeresol.

There is a book out there that I have just started reading called Evidence of Harm, by David Kirby. I recommend it for anyone that once to join in on the debate for keeping our children healthy.

LydiaNN · Jun 23, 2005

More than one naysayer has asked me, "when is this issue going to go away?" I always respond "never". I don't think there is anywhere near enough alarm amongst the general population at the extreme rise in this diagnosis, partly because of ignorance and partly because they're hearing that line, "it is just being diagnosed more" (and can I just say that if I hear that one more time, I'll just have to scream. Of course, it is being diagnosed more! IT'S MORE COMMON!!!

lisamc1RN, LPN · Jun 23, 2005

More than one naysayer has asked me, "when is this issue going to go away?" I always respond "never". I don't think there is anywhere near enough alarm amongst the general population at the extreme rise in this diagnosis, partly because of ignorance and partly because they're hearing that line, "it is just being diagnosed more" (and can I just say that if I hear that one more time, I'll just have to scream. Of course, it is being diagnosed more! IT'S MORE COMMON!!!

Amen, sister! I get so frustrated when I hear this! It's a bunch of hooey to try and explain away the rise is in the autism spectrum disorders by saying they've always been there and we are just now diagnosing them. Argh! I don't buy it, and I'm glad to know that there are others out there who don't buy it!

LydiaNN · Jun 23, 2005

All anyone really has to do is think back to when they were a kid and think about whether they knew anyone that might have been diagnosed. I didn't. Not a soul. And I certainly knew a lot more than 166 kids. In our old neighborhood of 144 homes, there were 3 kids with autism. At my husband's company, of 25 general managers, 2 have kids with autism. It goes on and on. I think even the 1 in 166 (same as 6 in 1000) estimate is low.

Serenyd · Jun 23, 2005

Well, why do some kids get autism and some don't? They all get the shots. Do vaccines even still have thimerosol in them? Is this still a problem today?

LydiaNN · Jun 24, 2005

Well, why do some kids get autism and some don't? They all get the shots. Do vaccines even still have thimerosol in them? Is this still a problem today?

One prominent line of reasoning is that some children have a genetic vulnerability and that thimerosal triggers autism's development. Another one is that, given that we are all kind of a tossed salad of the forces that shape us, some children have already been exposed to the toxic threshold below which autism would not develop, and the thimerosal pushed them over the edge. Yet anothter speculates that maybe there are "hot points" during a child's development during which the brain is particularly suspectible to assault from agents such as thimerosal. Clearly, autism has multiple etiologies. I don't think that any credible researcher or advocate thinks otherwise. I don't even necessarily believe thimerosal is the sole cause of autism as relates to vaccines (my personal prediction is that eventually, there will be evidence that the real culprit is rolling so many vaccines into such a tight timeline. Remember, anything that can cause damage to the CNS can also cause autism). I think it is more likely that the combined schedule of vaccines just overwhelms the immune systems of certain children (those mentioned above). More than anything, I would like to stop reading articles written by journalists with no real understanding of this disorder that claim "it has been proven that vaccines don't cause autism". That is simply not true. To date, it hasn't been proven that they do, but that is not the same thing as proving that they don't. Lest this sound like an extreme stance, bear in mind that no less reputable an organization than the Institute of Medicine is evaluating studies to determine if a causal relationship exists. And to answer your question, no (or would that be yes?), thimerosal is no longer used in most vaccines.

lady_jezebel · Jun 24, 2005

My pediatrician does not use any vaccines containing mercury, just in case there is something to the claims. Additionally, I requested a double dose of the pediatric flu vaccine when pregnant, since it does not contain mercury (& the adult version does).

Mercury is added to vaccines as a preservative, in order to make it a mult-dose vial. This makes the vaccine cheaper, since they can vaccinate several people from one vial. Without a preservative, a vaccine vial can only be used once. I would rather pay more for the single-use vial. I discussed this with my pediatrician before I chose him as our doc, since it's an important issue.

Regardless, the type of autism that shows itself later in a child's life (the regressive type, where previously gained skills/milestones are lost) is very, very rare. This is the type that is blamed on the MMR vaccine. I've spoken to autism specialists who say many in the field now believe that there are signs of autism that can be detected earlier in infancy, according to new research -- ie. that it doesn't develop later in infancy, though until recently it was never recognized until after 1 yr old.

lisamc1RN, LPN · Jun 24, 2005

I suspect the same as you, that the increase in the amount of vaccines that were/are being given is a culprit in the increase in autism. I am very greatful that thimeresol is no longer used in most vaccines and I hope that the results are that less children develop autism spectrum disorders. It is sad though, that while we are removing thimeresol from U.S vaccines, the ones we ship to other countries still contain it. Why? If we have suspicions of problems with thimeresol (and we do) then why on earth would we ship it out to other people's children?

One prominent line of reasoning is that some children have a genetic vulnerability and that thimerosal triggers autism's development. Another one is that, given that we are all kind of a tossed salad of the forces that shape us, some children have already been exposed to the toxic threshold below which autism would not develop, and the thimerosal pushed them over the edge. Yet anothter speculates that maybe there are "hot points" during a child's development during which the brain is particularly suspectible to assault from agents such as thimerosal. Clearly, autism has multiple etiologies. I don't think that any credible researcher or advocate thinks otherwise. I don't even necessarily believe thimerosal is the sole cause of autism as relates to vaccines (my personal prediction is that eventually, there will be evidence that the real culprit is rolling so many vaccines into such a tight timeline. Remember, anything that can cause damage to the CNS can also cause autism). I think it is more likely that the combined schedule of vaccines just overwhelms the immune systems of certain children (those mentioned above). More than anything, I would like to stop reading articles written by journalists with no real understanding of this disorder that claim "it has been proven that vaccines don't cause autism". That is simply not true. To date, it hasn't been proven that they do, but that is not the same thing as proving that they don't. Lest this sound like an extreme stance, bear in mind that no less reputable an organization than the Institute of Medicine is evaluating studies to determine if a causal relationship exists. And to answer your question, no (or would that be yes?), thimerosal is no longer used in most vaccines.

lisamc1RN, LPN · Jun 24, 2005

interesting. have you read anything about why so many autistic children have problems with bowel functions? it is my understanding that the mmr is associated because they've found the german measles (rubella) living in the guts of some of these kids, which in turn cause holes in the gut lining, which the gluten and casein protiens can get through because they are smaller, which hit the blood stream and act as an opiate effect on the brain; hence the reason so many parents of autistic children choose to put their children on gluten free, casein free diets. many of them report great success as well.

my pediatrician does not use any vaccines containing mercury, just in case there is something to the claims. additionally, i requested a double dose of the pediatric flu vaccine when pregnant, since it does not contain mercury (& the adult version does).
mercury is added to vaccines as a preservative, in order to make it a mult-dose vial. this makes the vaccine cheaper, since they can vaccinate several people from one vial. without a preservative, a vaccine vial can only be used once. i would rather pay more for the single-use vial. i discussed this with my pediatrician before i chose him as our doc, since it's an important issue.
regardless, the type of autism that shows itself later in a child's life (the regressive type, where previously gained skills/milestones are lost) is very, very rare. this is the type that is blamed on the mmr vaccine. i've spoken to autism specialists who say many in the field now believe that there are signs of autism that can be detected earlier in infancy, according to new research -- ie. that it doesn't develop later in infancy, though until recently it was never recognized until after 1 yr old.

lady_jezebel · Jun 24, 2005

rpggyr · Jul 17, 2005

I am a 52 year old grandmother raising a vaccine damaged granddaughter. I recently took my granddaughter in to a new Pediatrician (changed Insurances) He read her records and saw she had not recievd her last DPT, Poio, or MMR. I stopped any and all vaccines after she had convultions following her fourth DPT. By the way up until this time my granddaughter was perfectly normal. She lost what language she had, and regressed. After three complete neuropsych evals she was Dx with PDD/NOS. I knew I was in for a battle. The discussion turned to Thimerisol. This Ped was very arrogant and demeaning, saying that all the thimerisol was out of the vaccines. I insisted on seeing the vial. Low and behold the expiration date was 2005. The full amount of thimerisol was in it (25mcg). They have been lying to all of us. They are still using thimerisol (supposedly in trace amounts) to make the current vaccines. They have not recalled the vaccines with the full amounts, apprently they are still making them. The Pediatricians are either lying or don't check the stocks when they are coming in. I would advise any of you getting vaccines or giving them to your children to demand to see the vials. I point blank told this Ped that my granddaughter would not be receiving any more vaccines for anything thimerisol or no thimerisol. These vaccines are destroying our childrens immune system. I have never seen such a generation of sick children as this one. They are out of control with these vaccines. My granddaughter got the chickenpox vaccine and came down with them anyway, she also came down with shingles. Now they are working on a shingles vaccine. This will most likely be mandated for children as well. Its a case of create the disease and then come up with the vaccine. Lots of money for a the very corrupt Pharmaceuticals. Our chilren have become a captive market.

Peggy

I suspect the same as you, that the increase in the amount of vaccines that were/are being given is a culprit in the increase in autism. I am very greatful that thimeresol is no longer used in most vaccines and I hope that the results are that less children develop autism spectrum disorders. It is sad though, that while we are removing thimeresol from U.S vaccines, the ones we ship to other countries still contain it. Why? If we have suspicions of problems with thimeresol (and we do) then why on earth would we ship it out to other people's children?