ATTEN: The Future of CRNA's Threatened?

rn29306 · May 4, 2005

Click here to read about the deplorable attitude of residents and snotty med students:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=196849

lmdscd · May 4, 2005

I can't believe how they twist things around ,and say we are on the offensive when there the ones who are taking are freedoms away. And we started praticing before them! amazing!

New CCU RN · May 4, 2005

I will preface this by saying I am not a SRNA or CRNA yet, however, I work very closely with both CRNAs, anethesia residents and attendings in my role as an RN.

I can only speak from what I have seen - but they all function as a team. The attendings are more of the "supervisory/educator role". The residents, CRNAs, and SRNAs give the gas. I have never sensed a disregard for CRNAs. In fact, where I am - they are highly valued and respected and often can teach both the SRNAs and residents a thing or two. I have never sensed any conflict with regard to the actual role a person plays.

It isn't nurses vs docs. We need to work as a team. Of course we should keep abreast of current issues and lobby as much as we can for our own practice. However, if you can walk the walk and not just talk the talk - you will be respected regardless of the initials behind your name.

There are stupid things that are said on the student doctor net thing. There are also stupid things said about docs on this website. Keep in mind that the majority of the posters on the student doc sites are exactly that - students. They have not been in the real world and have alot left to learn. Let them have their sour attitudes if that is what they want to have. Who knows how many of the naysayers actually ever make it to being a resident. :chuckle

I have strong doubts that the CRNA profession is in any sort of compromise. As CRNAs or future CRNAs we need play our part in protecting our role by educating the public and being great practitioners. Of course economics could change - but considering that CRNAs administer 2/3 of anesthesia - I have strong doubts that any of us would live to see this change.

Florida may have been one step backwards - but within the last two years - ten times the amount of states have passed pro-CRNA laws.

rn29306 · May 5, 2005

See how the thread stays open as long as the spoiled children at SDN whine and complain amongst themselves (seems they are so good at it, do they teach that in med school??) but then close it down after some opposite views come up. Man did I have a good one for the first poster on the 2nd page of the thread..

Tuck and run you spoiled brats..

AWDC · May 6, 2005

Click here to read about the deplorable attitude of residents and snotty med students:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=196849

I really don't see what's so deplorable about the attitudes except for perhaps a few posts. More than anything, it's a thread about how anesthesiologists have historically not cared too much about what CRNAs did politically and what they believe to be the right thing that was done concerning the Florida issue. A lot of the posts actually say something about how valued nurses and CRNAs are. Although you may not agree with their views and opinions on what's best for patients, I think for the most part, they have handled themselves well without resorting to personal attacks.

AWDC · May 6, 2005

See how the thread stays open as long as the spoiled children at SDN whine and complain amongst themselves (seems they are so good at it, do they teach that in med school??) but then close it down after some opposite views come up. Man did I have a good one for the first poster on the 2nd page of the thread..
Tuck and run you spoiled brats..

Closing threads to avert a flame war is pretty much standard operating procedure at SDN forums. Why keep a thread open if it's just going to degenerate?

thn5625 · May 6, 2005

I wanted to post on SDN until I realized they closed it. Heres my 2 cents.

Its a turf war. The MDAs who spent years obtaining there credentials and trying to preserve there accomplishment and the CRNAs who are highly specialized professionals. If I were an MDA of course I would make there argument that CRNAs a detrimental to patient care. If I were a CRNA I would protect my job.

Point is:

If there was no need for CRNAs then hospitals would not hire them. Also, if patient care suffers hospitals would not hire them. Of course there are exeptions. I think we are just seeing the evolution of the healthcare industry. The market is the loudest voice and right now the market is finding room for CRNAs.

Closing threads to avert a flame war is pretty much standard operating procedure at SDN forums. Why keep a thread open if it's just going to degenerate?

Tony35NYC · May 6, 2005

Not yet a SRNA, but I've posted my concerns about this matter elsewhere in this forum. It is the nature of man to try to protect his "own piece of ground" and thats what this tug of war between MDAs and CRNAs is all about, that and money. Yes, money is a HUGE factor in all this. The physicians see CRNAs as a real threat to their dominance in the OR and, ultimately, their $300k+ salaries. So far the courts seem to turn back the MDAs every time they get legislators to pass laws that restrict CRNA practice. This may not always be the case but precedent has been established in the courts in many states so CRNAs will always have legitimate grounds to continue to challenge attempts by the MDAs to restrict CRNA practice.

This is really a sad thing because I haven't heard of any CRNA or MDA who's out pounding the pavement and can't find a job. There's plenty of work out there for everybody (and then some) so there's no need for people in either camp to be on the defensive. I haven't read the post on studentdoctor.com, but if some CRNAs have become more "aggressive and proactive" its probably because of years of petty politics and unfair attacks from the MDAs, the AMA, and state boards of medicine. The physicians will not win this. They have tried all sorts of bogus arguments in court and they always lose in the end.

The physicians think they control everything, but just you wait till the HMO lobbyists show up at President Bush's door again. If it so happens (and its already happening) that money gets real tight because of the billions they're now spending on war overseas, federal assitance for state-funded healthcare programs is just one area where BIG cuts will be made. There are even more plans to scale back Medicare and Medicaid to save money, and the ever-greedy HMOs are sure to follow suit with reduced provider rates and fewer benefits. Its only a matter of time before Medicaid and the HMOs begin to ask why they are paying MDAs higher rates when CRNAs who provide EXACTLY the same service are paid far less.

Hmmmm, state medicaid/medicare programs and the multi-trillion dollar health insurance industry versus a group of physicians---who do you think President Bush will listen to when he picks up the healthcare issue again?

prmenrs, RN · May 6, 2005

MODERATOR HERE: What goes on @ SDN should stay @ SDN! Please. Thanks.

rn29306 · May 6, 2005

I really don't see what's so deplorable about the attitudes except for perhaps a few posts. More than anything, it's a thread about how anesthesiologists have historically not cared too much about what CRNAs did politically and what they believe to be the right thing that was done concerning the Florida issue. A lot of the posts actually say something about how valued nurses and CRNAs are. Although you may not agree with their views and opinions on what's best for patients, I think for the most part, they have handled themselves well without resorting to personal attacks.

Hello there MS. I wondered why you were siding with SDN until I read your public profile. What is amusing is that while they were speaking amongst themselves and no one objected to their opinions, all was OK. But when one of us shows up, the flaming starts and thread closed. On the flipside, Tenesma occ comes on here from SDN and (s)he is very generally well-received. In addition, perhaps I was speaking of the general attitude of the entire anesthesia forum. I have read many of the posts for some time now and yes the general attitude is one that is not favorable to CRNAs and while I have said some things on there that I might want to take back, a great deal of them have also made very rude comments towards nursing and CRNAs.

Yes it is about money and yes all seek to protect their own. I don't blame them for trying to gain a legislative advantage in Florida. I guess we see what happens.

rn29306 · May 6, 2005

Not yet a SRNA, but I've posted my concerns about this matter elsewhere in this forum. It is the nature of man to try to protect his "own piece of ground" and thats what this tug of war between MDAs and CRNAs is all about, that and money. Yes, money is a HUGE factor in all this. The physicians see CRNAs as a real threat to their dominance in the OR and, ultimately, their $300k+ salaries. So far the courts seem to turn back the MDAs every time they get legislators to pass laws that restrict CRNA practice. This may not always be the case but precedent has been established in the courts in many states so CRNAs will always have legitimate grounds to continue to challenge attempts by the MDAs to restrict CRNA practice.
This is really a sad thing because I haven't heard of any CRNA or MDA who's out pounding the pavement and can't find a job. There's plenty of work out there for everybody (and then some) so there's no need for people in either camp to be on the defensive. I haven't read the post on studentdoctor.com, but if some CRNAs have become more "aggressive and proactive" its probably because of years of petty politics and unfair attacks from the MDAs, the AMA, and state boards of medicine. The physicians will not win this. They have tried all sorts of bogus arguments in court and they always lose in the end.
The physicians think they control everything, but just you wait till the HMO lobbyists show up at President Bush's door again. If it so happens (and its already happening) that money gets real tight because of the billions they're now spending on war overseas, federal assitance for state-funded healthcare programs is just one area where BIG cuts will be made. There are even more plans to scale back Medicare and Medicaid to save money, and the ever-greedy HMOs are sure to follow suit with reduced provider rates and fewer benefits. Its only a matter of time before Medicaid and the HMOs begin to ask why they are paying MDAs higher rates when CRNAs who provide EXACTLY the same service are paid far less.
Hmmmm, state medicaid/medicare programs and the multi-trillion dollar health insurance industry versus a group of physicians---who do you think President Bush will listen to when he picks up the healthcare issue again?

Yahoo! the "Pine study" (cadiologist named Dr. Pine who was a statistics man on the side) and read the results of his study on CRNA vs MDA based outcomes. The ASA attempted to make a bogus claim discrediting the study and DR Pine blasted them for it. Or it is conveniently located at aana website.