Article: Paramedics equal to RNs

[SummitRN]

In an article published on the major EMS website, EMS1, an article claims that Paramedics have more education than nurses and, through unbelievable math, are nearly as qualified as a nurse with CCRN and CEN certifications.

Why paramedics are qualified emergency care providers

This article is making the rounds on Facebook as Paramedics advocate to practice with similar or greater autonomy than RNs in the hospital environment.

[OCNRN63, RN]

BR157,

Are you an RN, a nursing student or what with respect to nursing? Just trying to figure out where the chip on your shoulder comes from....

Another individual who is not a nurse, but has come here to have his say.

When I worked in the ED, there were some paramedics I dealt with who were wonderful, but many of them seemed to have the same disdain for nurses we're seeing on this thread. I don't know why; no one questions the value of a highly skilled paramedic in pre-hospital or in transport. Is there belt-tightening going on in pre-hospital care that is making paramedics feel the need to expand their role to hospital care?

[OCNRN63, RN]

The last thing the chaos of an ED needs is a bunch of adrenaline-junkie, testosterone fueled medics running amok, elbowing other staff out of the way when a patient is going bad. I think they would have a hard time of it, particularly in community hospitals in rural settings, where you can go the whole day without much excitement. On nights like that, the medic would still be required to work, not sit in the break room waiting for a code somewhere.

I am also getting tired seeing RTs being devalued. Where I worked, the RTs arrived for codes quickly, and there wasn't the 20-40 min wait to get someone vented as is being described here.

[lindarn]

Does anyone remember, just a few short years ago, when hospitals had RTs, on PICC Teams, placing PICC Lines? RT jumped at the chance to place PICC lines.

And they were also doing sterile dressing changes, along with PT and OT. Why? Because they were trying to increase their visibility in the workplace, and grab a piece of the reimbursement pie. The were trying to make themselves worthy of remaining a profession. Sterile dressing changes, and procedures like PICC line placement, are taught in nursing school, but ARE NOT TAUGHT IN RT SCHOOL, PT, OR OT. Then why are they taking away part of our professional practice??

They saw the writing on the wall, and were/are, trying to preserve their profession. They were trying to make themselves useful, and had NO problem taking away a skill, that was preserved for nurses, to do.

Nurses need to learn that mindset. The PTB, are carving and chipping away at our professional practice, giving it away to the highest bidder. All while our Nursing Leaders, sit and watch it happen. Our profession is being stolen from us, without us firing a shot.

They have their sights set on eliminating/reducing, the need for licensed nurses, and we are doing nothing. I have heard the arguments from nurses- the med aides help, and free us to do other things. We don't have enough staff to help out, to allow nurses to do the professional skills, that WE were taught, and rather than demanding more professional staff, we just bend over, and allow them to take away a large part of our professional practice.

Med Aides came about because insurers did not want to pay a licensed nurse to administer meds in group homes, in nursing homes, and lobbied for the practice to be changed, allowing unlicensed personnel to administer medications. I remember when the subject came about in Washington State, and have ,"fond memories", when the co chair of WSNA stated, "well as long as they use trained people to pass meds, I guess it is OK". WHAT THE #%*&?

Yes, that was a member of the union that was supposed to be protecting our practice, and our livelihoods.

How is that possible? Medication administration is a professional practice by licensed personnel.

It was made possible by the use of med cards in nursing homes, with the side effects to watch for, printed on the cards for Med Aides to see. There goes another part of nursing practice up in smoke.

I have stated many times on this listserve, for nursing to go to a BSN as entry into practice of RNs, and an Associates Degree for LPN/LVNs, as entry into practice.

My biggest reason for supporting this, was to differentiate us from lower educated personnel. Make us stand out from the crowd.

How can we say, the RTs are under-educated, when fully half of RNs enter practice with a two year Associates Degree, and LPN/LVNs, enter with only one year of education, post High School? RTs are now also pressing for a Bachelors Degree as entry into practice for RTs.

The public equates worth with education. We are looking like under educated girls who are having a tantrum. Instead of demanding that our professional organizations, work to preserve our profession.

Folks, in a few short years, we won't have much of a profession left to fight over.

JMHO and my NY $0.02

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN (ret)

Somewhere in the PACNW

[donandheather62]

So how does the addition of a paramedic improve this? If an ER is understaffed, it is often due to budget issues, not lack of qualified applicants who can be trained for the role (of course, certain rural areas are the exception).

I can hardly argue agaisnt a movement to bring paramedics into the ER setting if there is a need for it. Is it a staffing and cost saving measure, such as the use of NPs and PAs in what was once strictly physician territory

sadly the lack of staffing is NOT a budgetary issue, but a profit issue. The staffing dollars are there but the reimbursement has been cut and thus the "machine?" must produce a profit with less, no different than any other INDUSTRY. Medicine has become a cash cow that is being force fed minimal nutrition but expected to produce the same product.

[RUBICON, RN, EMT-P]

There is much that I can say about this Article and several of the Commentary I have read, yet I will keep it brief. Just as in the daily News, one must read past the juicy Headline which is often written in a way to gain attention, sometimes inciting immediate reaction thru bias, before learning what the real story is about. For example, the Headline to start off this Thread is quite catchy .. "Article: Paramedics equal to RNs" .. yet nowhere in the article does it make reference to, or insinuate, this inflammatory statement. It's bait .. and you've been caught.

Also nowhere in the article does it make statement about an EMT-P's qualification, but instead some of the education that has been pulled from CEN & CCRN material. Thus education does not equate to qualification, and certainly not experience. And please make note how I have written "EMT-P" here in the preceeding sentence. Paramedic is simply a level of EMT. In EMS we are all EMTs. So the article actually IS about EMTs, albeit aimed specifically at the Paramedic-level).

There is much Arrogance in the commentary .. and this is truly unfortunate. Paramedics are not equal to Registered Nurses, not in education nor in skill level or critical thinking. And the reverse is also true. RNs are not equal to EMT-Ps, in education, skill, or critical thinking. And it is because our respective working environments are different while at the same time sharing one important detail in common: Patient Care.

Everyone in healthcare is a valuable member, as we are a team .. or supposed to act like one anyway .. yet how often do we allow ourselves to get caught up in the very immature and unprofessional nature of who is better than who and why. Who cares? Well there's always a few. And they are the Ones I would not want taking care of my family, your family, and their own family.

[MiParamedicRN]

There is much that I can say about this Article and several of the Commentary I have read, yet I will keep it brief. Just as in the daily News, one must read past the juicy Headline which is often written in a way to gain attention, sometimes inciting immediate reaction thru bias, before learning what the real story is about. For example, the Headline to start off this Thread is quite catchy .. "Article: Paramedics equal to RNs" .. yet nowhere in the article does it make reference to, or insinuate, this inflammatory statement. It's bait .. and you've been caught.

Also nowhere in the article does it make statement about an EMT-P's qualification, but instead some of the education that has been pulled from CEN & CCRN material. Thus education does not equate to qualification, and certainly not experience. And please make note how I have written "EMT-P" here in the preceeding sentence. Paramedic is simply a level of EMT. In EMS we are all EMTs. So the article actually IS about EMTs, albeit aimed specifically at the Paramedic-level).

There is much Arrogance in the commentary .. and this is truly unfortunate. Paramedics are not equal to Registered Nurses, not in education nor in skill level or critical thinking. And the reverse is also true. RNs are not equal to EMT-Ps, in education, skill, or critical thinking. And it is because our respective working environments are different while at the same time sharing one important detail in common: Patient Care.

Everyone in healthcare is a valuable member, as we are a team .. or supposed to act like one anyway .. yet how often do we allow ourselves to get caught up in the very immature and unprofessional nature of who is better than who and why. Who cares? Well there's always a few. And they are the Ones I would not want taking care of my family, your family, and their own family.

Actually, the term "Emt" has now been designated to a single licensure. The other recognized EMS licensures, as previously mentioned, are the AEMT, and Paramedic.

I am a Paramedic, and an RN (ICU). My paramedic education included a two year degree with all of the same prerequisites as my nursing education, with the exception that my paramedic program required a pharmacology class, and my nursing program required a microbiology class.

My critical thinking was definitely developed during my paramedic education, while my long term care was taught throughout my nursing program.

Neither program fully prepared my for life on the road in a busy 911 EMS system as a paramedic, or a busy ICU as as RN. This was developed through having great preceptors and putting the time in to learn protocols, policies and learning how to fully assess a patient.

Im not really certain what this argument is all about. If you want to work in EMS get a paramedic license. If you want to work in a hospital setting such as ER or ICU get licensed as a nurse. Two completely different fields.

I love both jobs, and still actively work on the road and an ICU. Both have pros and cons. To be honest I make more as a paramedic than as an RN, with the overtime that comes with working two 24 hour shifts a week. But working a 12 hour shift in a ICU goes by much faster, obviously.

One thing I do notice, is that the lower level practitioners always seem to be the ones with unchecked egos. All of the lame 'I save lives' bumper stickers and t shirts that paramedics and RN's sport. Give me a break. Ever see a physician post 'I save lives' memes on Facebook?

its time we got over ourselves and get back to taking better care of our patients.

[SoManyChickens]

Actually, the term "Emt" has now been designated to a single licensure. The other recognized EMS licensures, as previously mentioned, are the AEMT, and Paramedic.

I am a Paramedic, and an RN (ICU). My paramedic education included a two year degree with all of the same prerequisites as my nursing education, with the exception that my paramedic program required a pharmacology class, and my nursing program required a microbiology class.

My critical thinking was definitely developed during my paramedic education, while my long term care was taught throughout my nursing program.

Neither program fully prepared my for life on the road in a busy 911 EMS system as a paramedic, or a busy ICU as as RN. This was developed through having great preceptors and putting the time in to learn protocols, policies and learning how to fully assess a patient.

Im not really certain what this argument is all about. If you want to work in EMS get a paramedic license. If you want to work in a hospital setting such as ER or ICU get licensed as a nurse. Two completely different fields.

I love both jobs, and still actively work on the road and an ICU. Both have pros and cons. To be honest I make more as a paramedic than as an RN, with the overtime that comes with working two 24 hour shifts a week. But working a 12 hour shift in a ICU goes by much faster, obviously.

One thing I do notice, is that the lower level practitioners always seem to be the ones with unchecked egos. All of the lame 'I save lives' bumper stickers and t shirts that paramedics and RN's sport. Give me a break. Ever see a physician post 'I save lives' memes on Facebook?

its time we got over ourselves and get back to taking better care of our patients.

I wish I could "like" this x100.

But, you've got to admit, MiParamedicRN, some of the T-shirts are a bit funny...

[lindarn]

I have absolutely NO idea, why an RN program would not include a class in Pharmacology.

I attended an RN Diploma program in the last ice age, and we had Pharmacology in out first semester. I still have my textbook.

I am sure that us old timers, truly believe, as I do, that today's nursing students are being shortchanged BIG TIME, in the educational realm.

One only has to read the threads here, from present nursing students, and new grads, to see the glaring areas that are not being covered in class, and in the clinical setting.

I wish that I had the resources, to open my own blended, Diploma/BSN program. I assure you that any student who attended my school, would run rings around all of the present new grads.

What else can I say, besides,

JMHO and my NY $0.02

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Somewhere in the PACNW

[JustBeachyNurse, LPN]

The only reason I can see not having a pharmacology class is if the curriculum is included in the other coursework. I know some programs integrate pharmacology within the nursing courses and so the dosing calculation tests as part of those courses

[MiParamedicRN]

I have absolutely NO idea, why an RN program would not include a class in Pharmacology.

I attended an RN Diploma program in the last ice age, and we had Pharmacology in out first semester. I still have my textbook.

I am sure that us old timers, truly believe, as I do, that today's nursing students are being shortchanged BIG TIME, in the educational realm.

One only has to read the threads here, from present nursing students, and new grads, to see the glaring areas that are not being covered in class, and in the clinical setting.

I wish that I had the resources, to open my own blended, Diploma/BSN program. I assure you that any student who attended my school, would run rings around all of the present new grads.

What else can I say, besides,

JMHO and my NY $0.02

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Somewhere in the PACNW

I can tell you that my nursing clinicals were lacking when it came to hands on skills. Through my paramedic education it was mandatory that I start a certain number of iv's, push medications, incubate, etc.

During nursing clinicals, we were by no means allowed to start iv's, or even administered medications IVP.

I even had an opportunity to treat a tension pneumo via needle decompression, before a chest tube was placed, and I knew of several students that got to perform crichothyrostomy's during clinicals.

All skills that that are definitely better taught in a clinical setting under guidance, then alone in the field.

I can can say without bias that my paramedic education better prepared me as an entry level healthcare professional than my nursing program.

[OCNRN63, RN]

I have absolutely NO idea, why an RN program would not include a class in Pharmacology.

I attended an RN Diploma program in the last ice age, and we had Pharmacology in out first semester. I still have my textbook.

I am sure that us old timers, truly believe, as I do, that today's nursing students are being shortchanged BIG TIME, in the educational realm.

One only has to read the threads here, from present nursing students, and new grads, to see the glaring areas that are not being covered in class, and in the clinical setting.

I wish that I had the resources, to open my own blended, Diploma/BSN program. I assure you that any student who attended my school, would run rings around all of the present new grads.

What else can I say, besides,

JMHO and my NY $0.02

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Somewhere in the PACNW

Another diploma grad who shakes her head in both wonder and dismay at what new grads are saying here.

[MiParamedicRN]

Something else that should be addressed is the so called superiority of a BSN. I'm a huge proponent of education. I feel that education should be continued throughout ones career.

With that being said, a BSN concentrates not on clinical education, but instead on the managerial, administrative side.

So as far as clinical care is concerned, a BSN really isn't adventagious. Frankly, I learned more about administration in business school.