Are registered nurses considered First Responders?

TazziRN, RN · Mar 9, 2007

RNs are a totally different animal. First responders are EMTs, medics, law enforcement, and fire.

medicin79 · Mar 9, 2007

Check with your state EMS office; they should be able to answer this for you.

Trauma Columnist · Mar 9, 2007

I'm a pre-hospital RN in the State of Il and volunteer on my rural rescue squad.

GregRN · Mar 9, 2007

It can get pretty dicey when you are working in a different role but are an RN. I would want to protect my RN license at an accident scene by being trained as a first responder. As an RN your scope of practice may be beyond the resources available at an accident scene. If you identify yourself as an RN the expectations go up cosiderably and your duties at the scene change based on that. Instead of being held to the responsibilities of a first responder, you would then be held to the standard of what a reasonable RN would do. Without resources available to you as a Sherriff, you are set up to fail and could risk your license. I would consider it a blessing in disguise that they are asking you to train as a first responder. It protects your RN license and lets you be held to the standard of other first responders.

wordstew · Mar 9, 2007

Well from all the info I have gotten here and various other sources, it appears a nurse must take a certifying course to be considered a first responder. Thanks everyone for your replies. See you in class

RN4NICU, LPN, LVN · Mar 9, 2007

It can get pretty dicey when you are working in a different role but are an RN. I would want to protect my RN license at an accident scene by being trained as a first responder. As an RN your scope of practice may be beyond the resources available at an accident scene. If you identify yourself as an RN the expectations go up cosiderably and your duties at the scene change based on that. Instead of being held to the responsibilities of a first responder, you would then be held to the standard of what a reasonable RN would do. Without resources available to you as a Sherriff, you are set up to fail and could risk your license. I would consider it a blessing in disguise that they are asking you to train as a first responder. It protects your RN license and lets you be held to the standard of other first responders.

Actually, you would still be held to the standard of an RN - you are always held to the standard of the highest license you hold, regardless of what your role is at the time.

Pat_Pat RN · Mar 10, 2007

First Responders have protocols to follow. If you are acting under those protocols and they are set for BLS response, then you can only act as a BLS First Responder.

We have Medics on volunteer departments here that can only act as a First Responder if they are responding with that department.

Besides, what can a nurse do on a scene that a First Responder can't?

GregRN · Mar 16, 2007

Actually, you would still be held to the standard of an RN - you are always held to the standard of the highest license you hold, regardless of what your role is at the time.

Are you sure about that?? If I'm working as a NURSE, then I may be held to the standard of the highest NURSING license I hold. But if I"m not working as a nurse then I'm held to the standards of the position I'm working. Otherwise, no matter what my job, not matter what the context, I would always be working as a nurse, whether I'm a teacher, lawyer, first responder, etc. I would NEVER have a time where my nursing license ISN'T at stake.

Pat_Pat, so long as first responders are following first responder protocols then each team member will perform at the same level as any other team member, regardless of title. However, there may be certain situations that requires drugs to be pushed that are outside these protocols, ordered by an MD, let's say, in which case an RN would be needed. It would be up to the RN to then identify him/herself as such and then be able to push the drug. However, the RN license is now on the line whereas before, the MD would have to push the drug and his/her license is on the line if anything adverse happens as a result.

I've been involved in many discussions around this topic as I've looked into wilderness emergency medicine. PA's, as an example, are asked by their suprvising MD's to NEVER identify themselves on scene as PA's, only as trained in first aid or ACLS. That way it protects the MD's license, which is the license the PA is practicing under. Same thing goes for RN's practicing in lesser, non nursing roles.

RN4NICU, LPN, LVN · Mar 16, 2007

Are you sure about that?? If I'm working as a NURSE, then I may be held to the standard of the highest NURSING license I hold. But if I"m not working as a nurse then I'm held to the standards of the position I'm working. Otherwise, no matter what my job, not matter what the context, I would always be working as a nurse, whether I'm a teacher, lawyer, first responder, etc. I would NEVER have a time where my nursing license ISN'T at stake.
Pat_Pat, so long as first responders are following first responder protocols then each team member will perform at the same level as any other team member, regardless of title. However, there may be certain situations that requires drugs to be pushed that are outside these protocols, ordered by an MD, let's say, in which case an RN would be needed. It would be up to the RN to then identify him/herself as such and then be able to push the drug. However, the RN license is now on the line whereas before, the MD would have to push the drug and his/her license is on the line if anything adverse happens as a result.
I've been involved in many discussions around this topic as I've looked into wilderness emergency medicine. PA's, as an example, are asked by their suprvising MD's to NEVER identify themselves on scene as PA's, only as trained in first aid or ACLS. That way it protects the MD's license, which is the license the PA is practicing under. Same thing goes for RN's practicing in lesser, non nursing roles.

Yes, I am sure about that. If you are working in A HEALTHCARE CAPACITY (does that work better for you), you are held to your highest standard of practice (in this case, your RN license).

An RN is not the same as a PA - the RN has a license of his/her own, the PA does not - hence, the same thing does NOT go for RNs.

Why do you think the PAs are asked by their supervising MDs not to identify themselves as PAs (even though they are not functioning in that role at the time)? Because the LICENSED PERSON (the MD in the case of a PA) could be held responsible - even if that person was not even there. Since RNs practice under their own license, they are held to that level of knowledge and accountability when working in a healthcare (first responder or otherwise) capacity.

Pat_Pat RN · Mar 16, 2007

Pat_Pat, so long as first responders are following first responder protocols then each team member will perform at the same level as any other team member, regardless of title. However, there may be certain situations that requires drugs to be pushed that are outside these protocols, ordered by an MD, let's say, in which case an RN would be needed. It would be up to the RN to then identify him/herself as such and then be able to push the drug. However, the RN license is now on the line whereas before, the MD would have to push the drug and his/her license is on the line if anything adverse happens as a result.
My thinking is that if there is a drug on a scene where you are a First Responder, someone (ALS EMS) had to have brought it. Let them push the drug.
Plus, lets say you are on a scene as a FR, hyperglycemia in a known diabetic. If you *did* have contact with the MD and he *did* order insulin, *HE* ordered insulin. You give it. Just as you would in a hospital setting, or doctors office, or anywhere else.
I'm just stating things as I understand them here in Indiana.
Pat

GregRN · Mar 16, 2007

Pat_Pat, you're right, and I think that's the key difference. We're talking about three different things here: our role as an RN as a first responder (for hire), our role as an RN who stumbles across a situation and we are a volunteer, and what's allowed by state. Here in Colorado if I don't identify myself as an RN when I stumble across a situation that requires some assistance, I'm not acting as one. That protects my license for things out of the ordinary and I like having that protection. It's going to vary by state, however.