Are online NP programs good for the profession??

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I am applying to NP school soon and noticed a proliferation of online NP programs. Is this a good thing? I have nothing against online education, received my BSN via the online route, but wonder if this type of advanced education is taken seriously by other health care professionals. With multiple entries to practice, some already view nursing more a vocation than a profession, and with the advent of online NP programs I wonder if some will question the skill level of advanced practice nurses. Are there any online PA schools? I know online education is the wave of the future, but..........

Specializes in Emergency, Cardiac, PAT/SPU, Urgent Care.

Not trying to bash online programs here - but I honestly wonder if some programs will allow a much larger amount of applicants in who meet the minimum admission requirements? Are online schools as competitive with their admissions in the same manner as brick and mortar schools? I'm assuming that online programs can meet the needs of a much larger student body since there doesn't have to be seating room for all students - also, especially since they require their students to find their own clinical placements - essentially they can be much more liberal with who they choose to admit. I think this is what concerns people outside of the nursing profession - the thought that almost anybody can get in if they apply (not saying that I agree with this, but just throwing it out there as to why some may think online programs are inferior).

Also, I imagine that it would be very easy for a potential employer to figure out if someone attended an online program - especially if it is a school that is several states away from where the person lives and has worked for the past few years (since such info is listed on a job application).

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I wonder how much of that is related to the fact that nursing has been traditionally a "women's" profession -- one which has been quick to accommodate the desires of students to have education in a format that fits their existing lifestyle.

Or put another way, how often do we see posts like, "I am looking for a NP program where I don't have to move or quit my job, can get the degree part time, will still have time for my kids/family," etc. Compare that to the MD/DO, PA, PT, PharmD, et. al. programs that flatly state that the student is expected to NOT work, that no exceptions are to be expected for family/personal/employment reasons...Given that, is it any surprise how students in those programs get their dander up at the thought of us taking our didactics on-line (thus, essentially any time we want), having

Don't get me wrong, I'm as tired as anybody at the endless SDN-inspired threads that c&p NP/DNP course titles vs. PA/MD courses, calculations of amount of time spent in didactic or in clinical, and all the rest, repeated endlessly. I have my own concerns about our evolving educational model, and have stated them here and elsewhere. I think it is a good thing to debate our profession (including how it is entered) amongst ourselves, and there may very well be merit in the *thoughtful* criticisms of "outsiders."

...I honestly wonder if some programs will allow a much larger amount of applicants in who meet the minimum admission requirements? Are online schools as competitive with their admissions in the same manner as brick and mortar schools? I'm assuming that online programs can meet the needs of a much larger student body since there doesn't have to be seating room for all students - also, especially since they require their students to find their own clinical placements - essentially they can be much more liberal with who they choose to admit. I think this is what concerns people outside of the nursing profession - the thought that almost anybody can get in if they apply (not saying that I agree with this, but just throwing it out there as to why some may think online programs are inferior).

I have had this thought myself. I have spoken to one faculty leader in my program who agrees with me on the issue of students securing their own clinical placements. It seems cut & dried to me thinking as a student in the same city as my school. However, I can see the difficulty involved when a large %age of the students are spread across the country.

So, while "online" criticisms may just be a club employed by those with their own agendas, looking at the online model amongst ourselves may be in order.

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Not trying to bash online programs here - but I honestly wonder if some programs will allow a much larger amount of applicants in who meet the minimum admission requirements? Are online schools as competitive with their admissions in the same manner as brick and mortar schools? I'm assuming that online programs can meet the needs of a much larger student body since there doesn't have to be seating room for all students - also, especially since they require their students to find their own clinical placements - essentially they can be much more liberal with who they choose to admit. I think this is what concerns people outside of the nursing profession - the thought that almost anybody can get in if they apply (not saying that I agree with this, but just throwing it out there as to why some may think online programs are inferior).

Also, I imagine that it would be very easy for a potential employer to figure out if someone attended an online program - especially if it is a school that is several states away from where the person lives and has worked for the past few years (since such info is listed on a job application).

I did most of my post-masters PMHNP coursework while living in Bangladesh and Thailand. Now, I'm at a Marine base in Okinawa getting excellent clinical training with a psychiatrist. I chose my own clinical site since it was pretty close to Thailand and my wife. There is a lot of "virtual clinical supervision" which my university developed. There is also weekly self evals as well as mid-term and end of quarter evals which my preceptor has to do. I also have to log in the patients I see. I would have to collaborate with my preceptor if I wanted to BS anyone and that will probably not happen. That's in addition to the homework and interacting with the other students. Fun, fun, fun...I'm 20 yards from the ocean and a bar full of drunks right now...and here I sit in an apartment taking a break from homework....*wine

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Specializes in FNP.

Oh, I miss Okinawa! Was there for 3 1/2 years. Is it still University of Maryland? If so - they've expanded their offerings since I was there 10 years ago!

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Specializes in Too damn many.
I think the point of the OP is not whether or not online programs are any good or not ... but whether other healthcare disciplines are respecting / embracing online education as much as nursing has.

That's a good question.

I don't see online PA programs ... medical school classes ... PT programs ... etc. I have seen a couple of pharmacy ones, but that's about it.

I wonder how much of that is related to the fact that nursing has been traditionally a "women's" profession -- one which has been quick to accommodate the desires of students to have education in a format that fits their existing lifestyle. Crudely stated, "When a man wants to go to school, make a career move, etc. he moves and takes his family with him. His wife is expected to move to help advance his career. However, when a woman wants the same thing, the family is less likely to make great sacrifices, move, etc." That's changing in society, but maybe the fact that nursing is offering more education online than other health disciplines is related to that traditional tendency of the other disciplines to not be so accommodating for their students.

Just throwing a thought out there ....

Just a note to inform. There ar many many online PA programs out there, and at least two online MD programs. Oceana being the first I remember. Cannot recall the second.

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Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.
Just a note to inform. There ar many many online PA programs out there, and at least two online MD programs. Oceana being the first I remember. Cannot recal the second.

Thanks for the information. I figured there were a few ... but everyone I know going to PA programs or med school is going brick and mortar, except for maybe a couple of classes (such as pre-req's and basic science courses).

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I would be curious to know what the schools that offer an online PA are. I am familiar with Nebraska's first year online didactic but not any others.

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Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
Just a note to inform. There ar many many online PA programs out there, and at least two online MD programs. Oceana being the first I remember. Cannot recall the second.

Oceania University of Medicine (http://www.oceaniamed.org/graduateMD) is not accredited by the Liason Committee on Medical Education, the agency that grants accreditation to North American medical schools. Also, the school coudln't answer if all 50 states recognize their program for licensure.

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Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.
Oceania University of Medicine (http://www.oceaniamed.org/graduateMD) is not accredited by the Liason Committee on Medical Education, the agency that grants accreditation to North American medical schools. Also, the school coudln't answer if all 50 states recognize their program for licensure.

Ooooo .... Ahhhhh .... That helps explain why I never heard of it. Thanks.

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Just a note to inform. There ar many many online PA programs out there, and at least two online MD programs. Oceana being the first I remember. Cannot recall the second.

Actually there are no completely online PA programs. I can offhand think of three where the didactic component is more than 50% online. Even those require 3-4 months at a minimum of on campus instruction. There are no legitimate online MD programs. There are a few DO schools with a substantial portion of online PBM instruction, but they still have a fair amount of in person instruction.

I think that in discussing online education its important to distinguish what people are talking about. It would be unlikely to find any educational program in the US today that did not have an online component. On the other hand there are programs that do not require the student to set foot on the campus at all. When discussing clinical practice however, the campus setting exists for other functions beside education. Ideally there should exist multiple avenues to prevent an incompetent clinical provider from getting into practice. State licensing, credentialing and national certification all serve this purpose, but the earliest intervention has to happen in the educational program. If the student in not meeting academic expectations, then the school should intervene and offer remediation the student. If this fails the student should be dismissed. The problem is the less interaction the student has with the program the harder it is for the program to evaluate their clinical practice. This is further exacerbated when the student is allowed to pick their own clinical instructors who may or may not understand the clinical goals or be reluctant to point out areas of remediation. Finally forcing students to find their own preceptors guarantees that the level of clinical instruction will be wildly uneven.

Finally (and I've said this before), programs that are largely or wholly online can take in more students than they have institutional resources to support. In a traditional program this is readily apparent (whether through lack of classroom space or instructor resources). In the online venue it can be disguised and by forcing students to preform services traditionally provided by the program (finding preceptors for example) a program can fall below minimal standards without anyone knowing. Without fixed measurable standards and central accrediting body there is no way for a student to know if the program has enough resources or not.

David Carpenter, PA-C

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Specializes in Too damn many.
i would be curious to know what the schools that offer an online pa are. i am familiar with nebraska's first year online didactic but not any others.

the pre-requisites are same as any bringing a bs as a starting point. similar to the online np programs, the didactics are online delivery and the clinicals are arranged with approved providers in ones areas. as for which schools offer the program, just google "pa online program" and you will see a plethora of them.

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I would be curious to know what the schools that offer an online PA are. I am familiar with Nebraska's first year online didactic but not any others.

Nebraska's entire PA program is in house. There may be some online components but the students spend better than 1500 hours in the classroom the first year.

What you are probably thinking of is the degree completion program. This is an online Masters program for PAs that are already in practice.

The three programs that I know have a substantial amount of online didactics are UC Davis, Stanford, and UND. All three of these programs are from an experiment known as MEDEX where the student went back to the community for their clinicals with one particular physician. They work with the physician doing clinical but have to do didactic also during that time. All three require around 3-5 months of didactic time on campus (mostly clinical med and exam techniques). Most of them have also added required clinicals on or near campus to make sure they meet ARC-PA standards.

David Carpenter, PA-C

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