Are online ANP degrees destroying our credibility?

Coollittleme · Feb 20, 2012

Too easy. My husbands friend is stationed there he will ask if there are NP's outside of psych. Odd that you were allowed to be a civilian student working on military patients. UCMJ is not the same as civilian law. I wonder what the commanders thought? Did they know an online student was taking care of their soldiers, sailors, marines. Highly troubling to even ponder.

If you are a military dependent, your school has a contract with one of the military teaching facilities and they can accommodate you, they will let you do clinicals.

tyloo · Feb 20, 2012

Well I did a two hour long research through my online biomedical university library last night trying to find a research article that indicated poor nursing education through online teaching methods. I came up with nothing. Perhaps the nurses that feel so strongly about the deterioration of nursing education standards through online learning could reference a valid source other than opinions. Everyone has an opinion. Here are some definitions of an opinion according to Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

1.) belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge

2.) a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert

3.) a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter

I think the majority of these postings are based on #1 or #3. Impression and judgment is going to make people defensive. Is there any #2 out there (experts) on this forum that can give a good or bad review of online nursing education?

I am glad that nursing is forwarding education through online. Sure it creates obstacles but it also creates opportunities. Online education does not suite everybody but neither does the traditional classroom. Whatever a nurse chooses whether it be Ivy League school or a hospital diploma program we all have the same outcome the person becomes credentialed as an, "NP, RN, CNS, CNM," etc. No one should be ridiculed if they choose a high price Ivy league school or a more affordable state tuition online program.

Nursing education is only implementing advance technology. Look how much technology has impacted nursing in the world of work. We can use technological advances in interventions for patients but not for learning? Seems ironic.

Cwiema · Feb 20, 2012

I mean schools like Loyola in New Orleans, which has a stellar reputation for on site programs before online programs were offered. They are continuing their tradition of offering quality nursing education to those who, due to job and family constraints, cannot attend the physical location.

Cwiema · Feb 20, 2012

It may be only a matter of time before that happens. Why couldn't a medical student take all his or her biochemistry, etc courses online and do medical school rotations onsite? It certainly would be a more economicial way to educate physicians. I imagine it's just around the corner. Especially if it brings in the profit margin everyone is claiming online nursing education is. Everybody wants to make easy money, right? There are plenty of pre-med students who would pay dearly for that opportunity if it were that easy.

Cwiema · Feb 20, 2012

My step-daughter is graduating from medical school in May. She just informed me she took the majority of her courses before her third year online. Third and fourth year are onsite clinical rotations. She also notified me that many highly ranked med schools are offering this option. Online NP programs must require a certain amount of hands-on clinical hours to be accredited.

Trauma Columnist · Feb 20, 2012

I'm both a military vet and a family member of a retired USAF guy and I've worked extensively at the VA.

Please don't speak about that which you know not of - a friend of a friend is just that - not an expert.

psychonaut · Feb 20, 2012

It always amazes me how the people that post the most passionate know absolutely nothing about the subject that they post about.
Zenman - you rock! I've been here almost 12 years now and though I don't always agree with you - I find you a very interesting poster. I appreciate that have shared some of your life experiences with all of us - thanks.
Again, when the OP has been there and done that - well, then the credibility will be there.
For now, you have to take what they say with a grain of salt because it all seems to be a "he said, she said" kinda thing.

I love going 'round with zenman here and SDN, he's a fixture and has the experience to back it up. I too can disagree, but I have a feeling he'll be the one I hunt down for help when I finally lose my marbles. I have the distinct idea that a world-traveling psych NP shaman is a dude I'd enjoy partying with.

Trauma Columnist · Feb 21, 2012

Me too psychonaut, me too!

lol

He sounds like a very cool guy! He's got the experience to back up his statements.

prairienp · Feb 21, 2012

wow, for being so well educated and never being asked where you went to school? really? I get the impression you would be sure to share your deep understanding of 13 educational systems and a wife to consult. I for one ask all the time, where did you go to school. distance ed is a difference maker, not often for DNP completion programs but those that enter a fnp program online.

zenman · Feb 21, 2012

Can you be more specific? So you think that a person can't have a credible opinion on online education unless they've a received a degree online themselves? How convenient.

Certainly they can have an opinion but if you have experience in the subject then your opinion has more credibility.

The reality is that online education damages the credibility of the field. Quibbling about whether or not someone has enough experience to comment is just a distraction. Not only are online programs of questionable merit (how does anyone measure the quality control of these institutions?)

It's not reality if it's only a perception. Where's the data? Quality is easily measured by the watchdogs who stand guard and watch over nursing programs as well as by graduates passing certification boards.

But they also pump out new graduates and flood the market, especially since many have such low standards for entry. Anyone with a basic understanding of economics can see how terrible that is for the profession. Look at what's happening to clinical psychology, for example. They went the route of embracing professional and for-profit institutions and now the field is in serious crisis. There are too many students and not enough spots for internship, so they literally can't graduate. It's not good to have low requirements for entry, period.

I sometimes wonder if we should have any entry requirements. Just open the doors, let them in and see what happens. In my own case I barely passed the GRE yet made a 3.97 GPA in grad school. That test was a waste of my Saturday but I guess it does provide jobs for some people. I don't spend a lot of time checking on psychologists but I think we're on a slightly different topic. Many private for profit psychology schools have cropped up, some who don't meet licensure requirements, especially for clinical psychology. (However, are there any nursing schools in this same category?) I would love to go to Saybrook University if I could afford it due to their faculty. I'm already licensed to talk to people so I don't care if they meet any licensure requirements. I've been talking to Bradford Keeney and trying to get him to start a psychotherapy program that doesn't meet anyone's requirements and is focused on learning and creative therapy.

I've now found Wisdom University and thinking about a Ph.D. in hold on...wisdom. Maybe I can test out of most of the program, lol!

zenman · Feb 21, 2012

I love going 'round with zenman here and SDN, he's a fixture and has the experience to back it up. I too can disagree, but I have a feeling he'll be the one I hunt down for help when I finally lose my marbles. I have the distinct idea that a world-traveling psych NP shaman is a dude I'd enjoy partying with.

Yep we could have some fun. We should have a party sometime. Don't lose your marbles. Therapy tip: all your (everyones) demons come from within.

zenman · Feb 21, 2012

wow, for being so well educated and never being asked where you went to school? really? I get the impression you would be sure to share your deep understanding of 13 educational systems and a wife to consult. I for one ask all the time, where did you go to school. distance ed is a difference maker, not often for DNP completion programs but those that enter a fnp program online.

Did you want to ask?

I do not ever remember anyone asking where I went to school other than asking if I had a BSN. No one has asked at my new job of almost 2 months but then the medical director had passed out my resume so the unit staff knows. All most people I know just want you to show up with the credentials (am I'm on medical staff and have admitting privileges) and take care of business. Come to think of it I've never asked any physician where they went to school.

My comment about 13 different schools was that I have a lot of experience with multiple universities all over the place...and a lot of professors...good and bad. My wife? She's available when I have a question about education delivery. But since she's still in Bangkok at the moment I had to go online to find out how to make goulash this afternoon. I couldn't find anyone in person and I needed the info NOW! Darn good stuff too!

Now, I'm waiting for someone to provide the data that shows distance education is ruining our profession.