Are the new nurses to blame

[Zaphod]

I am starting this thread to address the issue of more experienced RN's complaining about new grads entering the field already knowing they will jump to graduate school after few years. Who is to blame them? I know they should be good RN's and stay inspite the horrible enviorinment.

I am not a real new, Id like to call myself "fresh" (2 years) and plan on staying in bedside at least 5 years but when I see the nurses that have been there for 10 years I see beautiful women who are also supersmart, but many of them are limping, have back issues, hate their job but cant move due to senior pay and feel they are too invested to move to grad school. If any of them need surgery to fix the bad knee usually they end up being let go and we know no one will bend backward to hire you at that point.

I think we should not blame the new grads but should look at the nurisng enviornment and how difficult it can be to be a bedside nurse. I know many 2,3 year RN's who are deadly affraid to ask for nursing references because they will be chewed up. Lets change the units so the new nurses will love staying here and future nursing shortage, poof, might dissapear.(well, I admit few other things are in play)

1. Dont scare the new grads away, but give a realistic view of bedside.

2. Help eachother

3.If they decide to go, say good luck and mean it.

Question: What else can we do to keep the newly graduated nursing forces in bedside?

[sunnycalifRN]

i see a lot of new nurses who start graduate school before they even get that first job -- nevermind the five years of experience that used to be the norm. i also see a lot of new nurses who had no idea that as rns, they'd have to clean up poop, give baths or turn their patients every two hours -- aren't there cnas for that? combine that with the new nurses who are horrified when they find out they're going to actually have to work nights, weekends and holidays and think they're above that . . . and the newbies who want three weeks of vacation in the summer, christmas off every year and their pick of plum assignments . . . .

i've been around for a long time, i've been to graduate school (and graduated, thank you very much). but i think those who want to skip the basics on their fast track to the top are going to find out they're not nearly as knowledgeable as they think they are.

i agree! i've seen a few of the types you mention come through our unit, too. they stay 6 months after orientation and then they've jumped to a better paying position elsewhere; the hospital started the versant new grad residency program to address this problem, i don't know how successful it has been.

it always cracks me up when i meet these newbies who declare that they're applying for the crna program asap; i've asked a few of them what they think the nurse anesthetist does . . . they haven't got a clue!! the $$$$$ is all they see!!

[Zaphod, BSN, RN]

I agree! I've seen a few of the types you mention come through our unit, too. They stay 6 months after orientation and then they've jumped to a better paying position elsewhere; the hospital started the Versant new grad residency program to address this problem, I don't know how successful it has been.

It always cracks me up when I meet these newbies who declare that they're applying for the CRNA program ASAP; I've asked a few of them what they think the nurse anesthetist does . . . they haven't got a clue!! The $$$$$ is all they see!!

However they will not be succesful in getting into the CRNA because it is competitive program and probably would not pass an ARNP BC as well. But this is not to say that new RN's should not have ambitions, or that making more money is somehow bad(male RN's are over that)What if bedside was coveted like that(great pay, benefits, vacations etc.)

[Meraki]

I think so many things have changed over the years...

It used to be you chose a career and stuck with it...teaching, nursing...people went into it expecting to be there until they retired. I don't think that is the prevalent attitude anymore, the world is big, people have a lot of interests and want to do something they enjoy and that works for their life at the time...so as life changes, jobs change. I don't think either is right or wrong...a nurse can be a great nurse whether they work at the bedside for 2 years or 2 years and they can be burnt out / lazy in 2 years or 25 years. I am perfectly fine with people leaving bedside nursing at whatever point works for them and their life.

Also education has changed significantly. Twenty five years ago far fewer people, nurses included, had bachelor degrees - they weren't necessary. Now if you want to do anything other than bedside nursing you need the higher education to do it..you can no longer really just work your way up the ladder based on seniority hours and a good work ethic.

I don't think that bedside nursing is the 'gold' standard of nursing. Effective healthcare requires a multitude of nurses in admin, management, educator, clinic, public health, school etc..jobs to truly provide the best primary, secondary and tertiary care. Of course there is a lot of politics and nonsense but that doesn't take away from the necessity of those positions in making the system functional. Also everyone has different interests, strengths, priorities, etc...that make one role in nursing far better suited to them than another. People define what gives their life balance differently and the role that work plays in giving life meaning, or purpose, in being stimulating and in meeting practical needs is different for everyone. For some this is bedside nursing, for many others it isn't. One can get experience in many different ways, there isn't one right way - i.e. I don't agree that med/surg nursing experience is 'the' experience one must have.

Technology and the internet has also opened up the world of possibilities and gives a glimpse into what others are doing, other opportunities etc...

I went back to grad school...I was tired of the politics and the issues on the floor and not having the time, authority or autonomy to change them. I loved aspects of my job but found other parts had become mundane and repetitive and I no longer found that work stimulating. Grad school opened up a whole other area of work / life for me. I enjoy learning and it has been a fantastic experience.

If you want to bedside nurse from high school to retirement then do it and if you want to leave bedside nursing after a couple years to pursue other work/education options then do it. Neither should begrudge another or become bitter because other people make different choices.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

you know, i am a newbie in the er and a gen xer but i have some thoughts on this one too. i agree with you: why not christmas off and 3 weeks in the summer?

i thought becoming a nurse, i would have a more flexible schedule. my employer touts this wonderful self-scheduling software they use. yeah. well. whatever. you must clock 36 hours in a calendar week. life would be easier if it was 72 in two weeks rather than 36 in one but they don't care. they also don't care that splitting the weekend up means you can't work friday sat and sun and be done for the week. both of these things would make life easier and why can't they be done? studies i saw suggested that nurses would work out their schedule without interference if left to do so. why does the facility interfere?

why do they assign you to a weekend, then call you off at 0500 am on saturday morning which they assigned you to?? i am no spring chicken but every other profession, you work when scheduled and get paid. no other kind of employer burns your vacation time by signing you up for a weekend you didn't want and then calling you off when census is low! its not the weekend that makes people mad, its the getting called off part! or better yet, call you in the next weekend at 0500 due to staff shortage??

also, why do they routinely change schedules that were built by the staff themselves? what is the point of that?

it is not so that the shortage causes the need to force yucky schedules on people. it is just bad habit that they do so. airline flight attendants entirely self-schedule and somehow, 12k people manage to cover every flight going in and out. i could go on but you already know all of this and you already know that nurses go into this job knowing they will work weekends and the like but that its the added b.s. last minute changes that people hate.

it would be nice if we could all have three weeks vacation in the summer and christmas off, but if you work in a hospital, that's just not possible. most places, holidays and vacation are awarded at least partially by seniority which means that the newbie will probably get less desirable vacations times and holidays off at least the first year. any newbie who comes into the hospital setting and demanding what some of the current staff has not yet worked themselves up in seniority to get isn't going to be very popular. newbies who are overheard saying that "i'm just not gonna work christmas. ever!" are even less popular. and a newbie who throws a fit because she can't have three weeks off in july -- when vacations have already been awarded on basis of seniority is going to be seen as not fitting in.

schedules vary by hospital, and even by nursing unit. my last four jobs, 36 hours a week was full time; here it's just 90% with 90% benefits. but i work 218 hours in 6 weeks, and as long as i work two full weekends and my assigned holidays (every other holiday) no one cares how i divide up those 218 hours. my last job, it had to be 36 hours a week and the one before that it was 72 hours every two weeks.

your other complaints would probably evaporate if your hospital was unionized. but even in a union hospital, someone who just got hired -- even with 33 years of experience -- will not get the best vacation times and holidays their first year. to assume that you will indicates lack of contact with reality.