Any other new grads considering a PhD?

[Joe NightingMale]

I know some of my classmates are, and now I'm giving this particular area a second look.

I have a direct-entry MSN and have been doing med-surg for 4 months now at an understaffed inner-city hospital. As you might imagine, it's exhausting and a bit frustrating. Once I've been there a year I plan to go someplace else, before I get burned out.

I know that almost any other place is going to be an improvement, but I suspect that I'm never really going to be satisfied with bedside nursing (as several of my classmates predicted). Some of my instructors suggested trying a PhD program, which I've been going back and forth about for a while now. I've previously considered NP (the primary choice of my classmates), but I've never really gotten excited about the possibility.

I find that I like to have the opportunity to think about things, to imagine and explore possibilities, and to be creative. I don't get the opportunity to do that in my present position, and I doubt any subsequent beside positions will be much better in that regard. Just med passes, call lights, and lots of paperwork...

I've done some teaching as a teaching assistant in the past, and while it could be tedious it could also be fun, a way to be creative and expressive (I even considered being a high school teacher for a while). I also did some research as part of my MSN and while I also found some of it tedious, I did find other parts of it quite interesting and even exciting, something I might want to build on.

I've always been an idealist, someone who's lived a fairly spartan intellectual existence. I think an academia-oriented position might be a good match for me.

Has anyone else been having similar thoughts?

[EDRN-2010]

Most universities require you to have a masters degree, you don't need a Phd. All 23 of my nursing professors had MSN degrees.

[EDRN-2010]

Many state funded schools pay this for a salary. You can google the labor contracts.

Six figures? Where do they teach?

[UVA Grad Nursing]

Many state funded schools pay this for a salary. You can google the labor contracts.

I've been in higher ed all my professional life (27 years), and currently at my third University (previously at Michigan, Georgetown and now Virginia). Here at UVa there are several tenured faculty making that salary; as a public university, all salaries are public record and published annually in the campus newspaper. However, six figures is not a starting salary for new, entry-level nursing faculty.

One additional thing to consider when entering a nurse faculty role is the value of free time. Imagine 3 months off every summer and a month free at Christmas. No pagers, no nights/weekends duties, every holiday with your family. I know many clinical faculty who took a pay cut going from practice to being a faculty --- the extra time with families was more than worth it. One of our faculty spends 2 months every summer camping and fly-fishing in the Rockies --- how many RNs in practice have that luxury? In addition, as Moogie so eloquently states, imagine being paid to discover new ways to improve patient care, to expand nursing science, and to guide and mentor the profession's future? To paraphrase the Mastercard ad, some things are "priceless".

[Mission]

Most universities require you to have a masters degree, you don't need a Phd. All 23 of my nursing professors had MSN degrees.

I think you're talking about clinical faculty, not research faculty. I doubt any schools hire research faculty without PhDs or DNSc anymore since it would be difficult if not impossible for them to get NIH funding. Also, some schools are starting to require clinical faculty to have DNPs, my school does.

[Mission]

One additional thing to consider when entering a nurse faculty role is the value of free time. Imagine 3 months off every summer and a month free at Christmas. No pagers, no nights/weekends duties, every holiday with your family. I know many clinical faculty who took a pay cut going from practice to being a faculty --- the extra time with families was more than worth it. One of our faculty spends 2 months every summer camping and fly-fishing in the Rockies --- how many RNs in practice have that luxury? In addition, as Moogie so eloquently states, imagine being paid to discover new ways to improve patient care, to expand nursing science, and to guide and mentor the profession's future? To paraphrase the Mastercard ad, some things are "priceless".

Plus all the other perks of being on faculty - kids can go to that college for free (imagine what that's worth if you're at an ivy league school), some universities will buy houses for faculty they really want, in addition to their salary, or offer some kind of discounted housing, paid travel to conferences all over the world to present research, lucrative consulting gigs...

[Joe NightingMale, MSN, RN]

I guess what I'm also trying to say to you is that you do run a very real risk of getting yourself pigeonholed into a specialty that might not suit you if you jump too soon to further your education. Getting a PhD is like committing to a spouse or partner; you want to choose your specialty carefully because you're going to be living with it for the rest of your career.

That's an important point, and one that I think some of my fellow students haven't taken into account when deciding on a PhD: What will your focus of research be? You're right, you have to choose carefully, and one of the things that has made me reluctant to go on for a PhD is the necessity of chosing a focus like that.

In fact, that's something I've been thinking about and plan to bring up with my former adviser when we meet sometime next week. I know that I have to know what I want to focus on before starting a program. But I'm perhaps a little different than most people in that I already know in general the kind of topics that interest me, I just need to focus and then be certain that's what I want to do. I also have the advantage of having been a biologist previously and thus I'm familiar with the demands of research. So I know to be careful.

One interesting possibility is doing a PhD in a field other than nursing. More than one of my professors has mentioned this possibility. In fact, it used to be quite common, before nursing PhDs existed. And in my case it might be more appropriate, depending upon what my interests are.

And I'm not going to rush into anything...I'm not starting any PhD program this year or next. I'm primarily interested in getting out of this hellhole where I work now and into something more relaxing. Who knows, perhaps I'll find some unique opportunity out there that will hold my interest for years.

But I've always had a love of academia. And a desire to avoid the traditional retirement. So I've looked at the PhD. But there may well be other possbilities...

[Moogie]

In fact, that's something I've been thinking about and plan to bring up with my former adviser when we meet sometime next week. I know that I have to know what I want to focus on before starting a program. But I'm perhaps a little different than most people in that I already know in general the kind of topics that interest me, I just need to focus and then be certain that's what I want to do. I also have the advantage of having been a biologist previously and thus I'm familiar with the demands of research. So I know to be careful.

You definitely have an advantage, Joe, with your background in biology. You could easily focus on pathophysiology, pharmacology, even normal developmental changes throughout the lifespan. And because you are rooted in a physical science, it would be much easier for you to extrapolate what you've learned into many areas within nursing. You are VERY smart to seek advice from a mentor; he or she clearly knows you well, knows your strengths and weaknesses and can help you figure out the best career path for yourself.

One interesting possibility is doing a PhD in a field other than nursing. More than one of my professors has mentioned this possibility. In fact, it used to be quite common, before nursing PhDs existed. And in my case it might be more appropriate, depending upon what my interests are.

Definitely. I think for some people a nursing PhD is appropriate but it's also important to for nurse educators and researchers to have grounding in other disciplines as well. Again, combining biology and nursing could make you very attractive to prospective employers in academia or in business. Many nursing faculty have EdDs, which appealed to me before the proliferation of nursing doctorates.

And I'm not going to rush into anything...I'm not starting any PhD program this year or next. I'm primarily interested in getting out of this hellhole where I work now and into something more relaxing. Who knows, perhaps I'll find some unique opportunity out there that will hold my interest for years.

But I've always had a love of academia. And a desire to avoid the traditional retirement. So I've looked at the PhD. But there may well be other possbilities...

I hear you about the unsatisfying work environment. Sometimes a bad environment is impetus to make a change, either in oneself or that environment---but sometimes it just wears down your soul. Your situation sounds soul-sapping and like a waste of good nursing talent. I also hear you on the desire to avoid traditional retirement. As a Baby Boomer, I honestly don't expect to ever be able to retire, certainly not the way my parents did, not only because I don't want to be stagnant in my later years but because I don't think I'll ever be able to completely afford it. Not whining, just facing reality. I considered many other possibilities as well, within nursing as well as outside of nursing but nothing has held my interest in quite the same way.

And thank you for taking my post seriously and not blowing me off as some old geezer nurse. I have to admit that sometimes it can be frustrating to sincerely want to help and to go out on a limb with an opinion here, only to get blasted because you didn't say what someone wanted to hear. (I get enough of that from my kids, LOL!)

[Joe NightingMale, MSN, RN]

And thank you for taking my post seriously and not blowing me off as some old geezer nurse. I have to admit that sometimes it can be frustrating to sincerely want to help and to go out on a limb with an opinion here, only to get blasted because you didn't say what someone wanted to hear. (I get enough of that from my kids, LOL!)

Having read through your posts I didn't assume that you simply wanted me to "pay my dues", just consider what I was planning.

And I have, and I'm going to look at other options as well, besides the PhD. I may like academia, but I have to ask myself why that is, and if there is some other position (inside or outside academia) that might satisfy that desire. I also have to ask myself if retirement really is out of the question...if it's not then my decision might (or might not) be affected.

Most of my classmates want to become NPs, a smaller number CRNAs, and a few others PhDs. But I know that there are still other options that I haven't even considered, stuff away from the bedside but not in management or education. Perhaps I'll try to get a look at those too.

[Happygirl57]

I know that University of Massachusetts in Worcester www.umassmed.edu/gsn offers a BSN to PhD program check it out I have heard good things about it!