All CRNA Schools website promoting AAs

Specialties CRNA

Published

Specializes in CRNA.

I noticed that the All CRNA Schools website has a page about AAs. I don't believe it paints an accurate picture of the AA profession. And if the site is about All CRNA Schools, why have they added AAs? In my opinion it lowers the credibility of the site. thoughts?

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
I noticed that the All CRNA Schools website has a page about AAs. I don't believe it paints an accurate picture of the AA profession. And if the site is about All CRNA Schools, why have they added AAs? In my opinion it lowers the credibility of the site. thoughts?

If they pay they get to advertise. It is now nothing more than a for profit website.

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That was a core website I used to help me identify which schools I was interested in. It pains me to see they've added AA to their site. The general population has no idea that AAs were simply designed by MDs to be us but unable to practice independently, thus ensuring them a supervisory paycheck. They don't understand that they're undertrained and only able to practice in (what 17?) of the 50 states. Not to mention last I checked there were maybe 14 programs that even taught AAs in the United States.

I had a nurse friend call me the other day and ask me what I thought about them applying to AA school. She just didn't want to do the extra steps required for a CRNA application so she was willing to do AA school instead. She had no idea the differences between CRNA and AA. Once I told her she said there was no way she'd do AA then and would go for CRNA. We need to get more vocal out there, our own fellow nurses don't know what's going on.

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Specializes in CRNA.

If they added them to make money, then applicants and future CRNAs need to vote with their feet.

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Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.
We need to get more vocal out there, our own fellow nurses don't know what's going on.

Wow I had no idea there was a back door and thought CRNAs were super tight with regard to your admission standards and quality of programs. I thought it was just NPs who were being bastardized by the plethora of schools offering a quickie NP with virtually no admissions criteria or actual RN experience. What a shame. It seems nursing is so desperate for a "seat at the table" they allow this to go on to what I predict will be the detriment of our profession.

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Specializes in CRNA.

AAs are not nurses, there is no back door but for the uninformed it might seem that way. AAs are a profession designed by some MDAs who want to take power away from CRNAs, and guarantee a lot of MDA jobs.. AAs can only practice with medical direction by an MDA, so they add cost. AAs are not interchangeable with CRNAs but that's how they are promoted. People who go to AA programs often regret they aren't CRNAs, but no CRNA wishes they went to an AA program. The future of AAs is very at risk but potential students aren't told the real story. AA programs are very expensive and will provide severe career growth restrictions for a lifetime.

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I don't mean to be rude or naive, but why is this a bad thing? AA's are essentially PA's. Shouldn't we be supporting them and their aims for independent practice as well? Why are you saying they are under trained and dangerous? Anesthesia is so safe now it's really hard to kill a patient. the length of CRNA training is only a bit longer than AA training.

I don't think it is fair for our profession to be doing to the AA's what the MD's do to us.

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PA's don't put people under anesthesia, responsible for their hemodynamics, at any point possibly killing the patient. PAs talk to patients and write prescriptions, all under the direct eye of an overseeing physician who is required to be close by. AAs are also required to have an MDA near them but oftentimes this "supervision" is minimal and in the anesthesia world a couple wrong choices can lead to death. That's just touching on patient safety.

AAs can not independently provide anesthesia, which means a facility that wants them to provide their services has to bring on an Anesthesiologist for $400,000 or more a year as well. An MDA will probably insist on a total of 4 AAs be brought in so he can max bill so now you've got 4 AA's and 1 MDA required to provide anesthesia. These costs get transferred to the patients who they provide anesthesia for, so you can see they are expensive for healthcare.

This isn't even mentioning the fact that AAs weren't needed and only created by MDAs because it would be their version of a CRNA but with a guarantee to not be competition because they can't independently practice. Why would CRNAs embrace something that is just a less trained version of themselves that can be controlled? Thier whole purpose is to be our less qualified replacement who won't be able to provide anesthesia care to the 70% of America that is considered rural. They are taking our jobs and also possibly bringing down CRNAs salary because they have no choice but to take what the MDA offers them.

I feel for AA's and I'm sure they are great people who can learn over time to be safe anesthesia providers. They just don't realize they were created simply as an MDA pawn in their game of politics and financial control. Although when they start school they must be aware they're only allowed to practice in a handful of states. That should be a red flag for anybody going into a field, that more than half the country doesn't want them practicing in their states... perhaps they're just desperate. I would recommend that anybody who wants to do AA, go ahead and apply to PA school and practice in all 50 states.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
I don't mean to be rude or naive, but why is this a bad thing? AA's are essentially PA's. Shouldn't we be supporting them and their aims for independent practice as well? Why are you saying they are under trained and dangerous? Anesthesia is so safe now it's really hard to kill a patient. the length of CRNA training is only a bit longer than AA training.

I don't think it is fair for our profession to be doing to the AA's what the MD's do to us.

http://www.wana-crna.org/pwdocs/ChartCRNAvsAA2012.pdf

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You guys do realize how ridiculous you all sound. AA's are essentially PA's and I consider my PA colleagues extremely competent colleagues. You are being hypocrites by saying that aa are inadequate. And in terms of untested outcomes? I mean lets be serious we all know the outcomes will be the same or superior depending on how the authors spin the papers. Pushing propofol aint no gods work.

i say we support our aas and advocate for independent practice for them as well. They are highly trained providers with masters degree. And equal length of training as us which frankly doesnt matter because the outcomes are mos tlikely the same.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
You guys do realize how ridiculous you all sound. AA's are essentially PA's and I consider my PA colleagues extremely competent colleagues. You are being hypocrites by saying that aa are inadequate. And in terms of untested outcomes? I mean lets be serious we all know the outcomes will be the same or superior depending on how the authors spin the papers. Pushing propofol aint no gods work.

i say we support our aas and advocate for independent practice for them as well. They are highly trained providers with masters degree. And equal length of training as us which frankly doesnt matter because the outcomes are mos tlikely the same.

When AAs are interchangeable with anesthesiologists in the deployed setting as CRNAs are then you can rant and rave about AAs excellent training.

AAs are not trained to work independently as CRNAs are. AAs will never be independent because they are a subgroup of the the ASA. CRNAs have always had independent practice for over 150 years.

AAs main purpose for the ASA is to limit CRNAs scope of practice expansion and keep CRNA salaries down while keeping revenues up for anesthesiologists.

PAs came about as a transition tool for military medics to address the shortage of civilian primary care physicians. AAs have always had a more nebulous history. They were never trained to be independent. They can only work under medical direction of anesthesiologists. AAs are a part of the ASA making it basically impossible to ever gain independence. They are not trained to be independent and their sole purpose right now is to try and limit CRNA practice.

As far as your quip about research being whatever the author makes means you don't understand how to evaluate peer reviewed research and/or you don't belong in the medical community. Do you go around deciding what intervention is best for patients by just picking it out of grab bag?. Peer-reviewed scientific evidence is difficult to make up. Replicated peer-reviewed scientific research with multiple researchers/research groups done over the last hundred years is basically impossible to make up as you are suggesting. Assuming that research was so easy to make up then why hasn't the ASA, the most well funded medical PAC, been able to come up with any peer-reviewed research to support the superiority of medical direction, medical supervision, and/or independent anesthesiologists having better outcomes then independent CRNAs.

http://www.aana.com/resources2/professionalpractice/Documents/Quality%20of%20Care%20in%20Anesthesia%2012102009.pdf

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