I just received a job offer letter from a potential employer. It states the basics, such as department I will be working for, who I am going to be reporting to, introductory period length, hourly wage, overtime time pay rate, etc. At the end it say the following:
"....... reserves the right at any time, with or without notice, to alter or change job responsibilities, compensation, incentive plan, reassign or transfer job position or assign additional job responsibilities within your general skill set for capabilities. ... The Company reserves the right to change or modify the terms and conditions of any base compensation or incentive plan at any time. ..."
I am a new grad nurse and this will be my first nursing job. The statement sounds pretty alarming to me and I am a bit hesitant to sign that letter with these sort of conditions. To me it reads that nothing is set in stone. They may change my hourly rate, benefits, put me in any department they see fit at any time they please.
I would appreciate any advice from experienced nursing community on this sort of conditions. Is this common for employers to do this?
I'd be careful about searching for the greener grass, your offer is pretty standard for a new grad. I've never seen a job description for any nursing job that specifically limited the duties and responsibilities for instance, they all include the boilerplate 'and other duties as assigned'. The potential to offer a different position if it turns out they don't feel you're a good fit for the position you were offered is if anything to your advantage, the alternative is that they'll just let you go at the end of your probationary period rather than trying to find a workable alternative.
Thanks for the positive twist! I think if we look at this statement separately, then it might be a possibility. I was alarmed not so much by these conditions, but rather by how they fit into the whole picture.
CONVERSATION: They: "Are you available only days? Me: "Yes." ... They: "You applied to day shift position?" Me: "Yes." ... They: "I know you prefer days on Telemetry. If I gave you Telemetry nights and Med-Surge days, which one would you prefer?" Me: "Will you give me some time to think about this?"
VERBAL OFFER: - Telemetry Department - AM shift - 3 x 12 hours - 72 hours per pay period - $XX.XX hourly wage
OFFER LETTER: - Telemetry Department - Reporting to ... ... CNO - Target start date is contingent upon the completion of all new hire processes - Introductory period of 90 days - $XX.XX hourly wage - Overtime time pay rate
The letter is missing the shift and hours information. At the end it says "....... reserves the right at any time, with or without notice, to alter or change job responsibilities, compensation, incentive plan, reassign or transfer job position or assign additional job responsibilities within your general skill set for capabilities. ... The Company reserves the right to change or modify the terms and conditions of any base compensation or incentive plan at any time. ..."
In the context of this conversation I have a very strong feeling that these conditions will eventually get me to night shift either in Tele or on Med-Surg.
Would I take it? I would have given it a thought if it was offered as Telemetry PM position.
Will I take it? That is what I was trying to decide last week and decided that I would rather pass, because something just doesn't feel right.
Part of your experience has to do with what you choose to make of it.
Maybe your right. I will consider night shifts in the future. It looks like it will be easier to come across, especially as a new grad. Better than just waiting for an ideal job.
Thanks for the positive twist! I think if we look at this statement separately, then it might be a possibility. I was alarmed not so much by these conditions, but rather by how they fit into the whole picture.
CONVERSATION: They: "Are you available only days? Me: "Yes." ... They: "You applied to day shift position?" Me: "Yes." ... They: "I know you prefer days on Telemetry. If I gave you Telemetry nights and Med-Surge days, which one would you prefer?" Me: "Will you give me some time to think about this?"
VERBAL OFFER: - Telemetry Department - AM shift - 3 x 12 hours - 72 hours per pay period - $XX.XX hourly wage
OFFER LETTER: - Telemetry Department - Reporting to ... ... CNO - Target start date is contingent upon the completion of all new hire processes - Introductory period of 90 days - $XX.XX hourly wage - Overtime time pay rate
The letter is missing the shift and hours information. At the end it says "....... reserves the right at any time, with or without notice, to alter or change job responsibilities, compensation, incentive plan, reassign or transfer job position or assign additional job responsibilities within your general skill set for capabilities. ... The Company reserves the right to change or modify the terms and conditions of any base compensation or incentive plan at any time. ..."
In the context of this conversation I have a very strong feeling that these conditions will eventually get me to night shift either in Tele or on Med-Surg.
Would I take it? I would have given it a thought if it was offered as Telemetry PM position.
Will I take it? That is what I was trying to decide last week and decided that I would rather pass, because something just doesn't feel right.
I think it's reasonable to get them to at least agree to a pay rate, although they still may reserve the right to change that rate, in which case you have the option to resign, as with any other changes made down the road that you don't feel is worth keeping the job for.
It would be unusual for an employer to offer a promise to never change other aspects of compensation such as healthcare cost sharing, retirement plan contributions, etc.
Worst case scenario, if they decide to put you on nights then you can say that as you told them before, you're only interested in day shift, so I'll pass and my last day is...
I would be careful in assuming that you'll find something better elsewhere, you might end up realizing this was actually the best offer you got and burned that bridge.
That is what worries me. Let's say it gets to the point that what we have initially agreed on would change so much that I will have to tell them that I would rather go and find something that suits me better. Employment is at will, so I can leave any time I please. The question is, how will it look on my resume if I decide to leave in 4 months? The records of this employment will stay in the system and won't go away. For a nurse with years of experience it will be easier to justify that this employment just did not work out. A new grad who leaves a job only after working there for 4 months will probably be looked at a little differently. This means I will have to make a personal commitment to stay with this employer at least a year before moving on.
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
There might not be better offers out there but hopefully you'd find an employer who was honest about what they're offering.
These people seem very willing to tell you whatever they think you want to hear. You're right about having to leave if they pull too big a fast one on you; you'll end up looking like a flake.
A crappy offer delivered honestly is better than a great offer that doesn't exist.
The thing is that I have other interviews in progress, and other recruiters contacting me regarding applications that I have already submitted. This offer is ideal for me, BUT conditions are not solid. Even thought it looks ideal right now during the hiring process, they can change anything at anytime after I am hired, trained and past the probation period.
The truth is that the employer has the upper hand because employees are easy to get and need the income, in my experience at least.
Even if they wrote down the conditions you want - day shift, etc. - they can still float you, pull you, change your shift to suit the needs of the facility or just for no real reason or because they don't like you.
OP, the contract is a bait and switch...you would be willingly signing on as an indentured servant. Their will is what counts and they clearly stated this in the offer letter. They know. Nights are almost impossible to fill on some units...therefore "floating". If you wanted to be a float nurse, you would have applied for that...not to mention you have zero experience. floating takes a great deal of experience and flexibility...not something a new grad has.
the way this contract reads to me is that they know if they tell you the truth, you would never, ever accept it. not for any amount of money, yet I am sure they offered you base new grad rate, right?
then you would be stuck on something you don't want, can't do or do poorly with....and you quit or are fired. both bad scenarios and lemme tell ya....any facility that would do this....will bad mouth you on the way out if you dare quit them.
you DO have leverage, that is another thing nurses want you to think....this is how it is, you're a new grad, I did it so you have to do it....nonsense. nursing school brainwashes you that there is a system in place and if you don't do it their way, you won't work.
bahhhhhloney. especially if you are willing and able to relocate. if not, you still have leverage. nurses are fleeing for the exits in acute care. en masse.
NP. CRNA. Teaching. outpatient. dialysis. pharmaceutical. insurance. case management. OUT of nursing altogether.
its bull puckey that managers and hr want you to believe. jobs are a dime a dozen....ergo....the facilities are now willingly shoving the bait and switch to the forefront of recruiting. It's also a sign of a crap facility as a whole.
all you need is 18 months to 2 years of NURSING EXPERIENCE. anywhere. doing anything. to become a traveler.
want great experience to do travel in pretty much any specialty except for OR? go the the ER or the cath lab. ACLS experience trumps "can handle 9 patients at a time" because they know....nobody actually HANDLES 9 patients...they muddle muddle thru. practicing acls on emergent patients gives you street cred. I can travel doing PACU, Pre op, cath, er, icu, med surg and a plethora of other specialties bc I have ER (and that's how I got into icu, btw).
your letter is a good one....but never apologize to someone who needs more from you than you will ever need from them.
How does working ER or cath lab qualify you to work med/surg?
A new grad in particular needs appropriate experience to work successfully in any setting, certainly to travel.
That is what worries me. Let's say it gets to the point that what we have initially agreed on would change so much that I will have to tell them that I would rather go and find something that suits me better. Employment is at will, so I can leave any time I please. The question is, how will it look on my resume if I decide to leave in 4 months? The records of this employment will stay in the system and won't go away. For a nurse with years of experience it will be easier to justify that this employment just did not work out. A new grad who leaves a job only after working there for 4 months will probably be looked at a little differently. This means I will have to make a personal commitment to stay with this employer at least a year before moving on.
I don't know how much time you have still to decide, but I would try and figure out if the other potential jobs you mentioned wouldn't have similar conditions. Otherwise you might look back later and realize this was the one you should have taken, but I agree, you should push for more specifics on at least some of the items, at least pay and shift, the other uncertainties may not be different with other employers. If you're less interested in the other jobs because they're med-surg jobs rather than tele, and if what you're worried about with this job is ending up in med-surg instead of the tele, then you're not necessarily worse off by taking this job. And as a new grad in the hospital, there's a pretty good chance that those other jobs are nights.
You're right that it doesn't look great to leave your first job right off the bat, but good employers won't always hold it against you that you had the initiative to leave a bad employer. But if you're a year out from school and still have no nursing experience, that doesn't look much better.
If it really gives you the heebie-jeebies though, you maybe should heed that warning.
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
On 3/16/2020 at 9:19 PM, okurilen said:
Maybe your right. I will consider night shifts in the future. It looks like it will be easier to come across, especially as a new grad. Better than just waiting for an ideal job.
Accepting a less than ideal job is probably a good way to go. But still be careful about employers who post jobs that don't exist.
I wonder where I would be now if I have accepted that offer? About a week from the time I decline the offer I had another interview at a bigger hospital that had a well structured residency program that lasts one year. After going through all the interviews, I was notified by HR a week ago that the residency program start date will have to be moved to some day in the future due to current situation. I've read many posts on hiring freeze and closure of residency programs for new grads.
They mentioned that they will keep in touch when they determine the starting date, if I am still interested at that time. No one knows how long all of this is going to last, and it has been already 1 year and four months since my graduation. I really don't want to end up being 2 years out of school with no work experience and blame it all on COVID-19.
I live in Los Angeles, California, one of the major epicenters. I have been reading that hospitals are too busy to train any new grads now. They are more interested in experienced nurses who can be cross trained and retired nurses with experience who can catch up quickly. Is the situation the same in all states? If I am willing to relocate to other regions of the country, will I find more opportunities there?
I feel that I can either sit and wait for things to get better and for residency program to reopen, or I can start looking for other opportunities in locations that offer them.
Amazing how things can change in just several weeks.
I am just going to say this - what they wrote down is legally the reality of working in right to work states. Any job you don’t have a contract for (which contracts aren’t common) can completely change your job, your pay, and your benefits. What they can’t do is do it retroactively. And then you decide if worth working there under the new conditions.
It sucks but this is what happens when unions aren’t a thing.
It sucks but this is what happens when unions aren’t a thing.
Interesting. Thanks for clarifying this. I initially asked them if there was a contract for this job and they replied that I will be working under a union. How does working under a union change things?
guest1107684
37 Posts
Thanks for the positive twist! I think if we look at this statement separately, then it might be a possibility. I was alarmed not so much by these conditions, but rather by how they fit into the whole picture.
CONVERSATION:
They: "Are you available only days?
Me: "Yes."
...
They: "You applied to day shift position?"
Me: "Yes."
...
They: "I know you prefer days on Telemetry. If I gave you Telemetry nights and Med-Surge days, which one would you prefer?"
Me: "Will you give me some time to think about this?"
VERBAL OFFER:
- Telemetry Department
- AM shift
- 3 x 12 hours
- 72 hours per pay period
- $XX.XX hourly wage
OFFER LETTER:
- Telemetry Department
- Reporting to ... ... CNO
- Target start date is contingent upon the completion of all new hire processes
- Introductory period of 90 days
- $XX.XX hourly wage
- Overtime time pay rate
The letter is missing the shift and hours information. At the end it says "....... reserves the right at any time, with or without notice, to alter or change job responsibilities, compensation, incentive plan, reassign or transfer job position or assign additional job responsibilities within your general skill set for capabilities. ... The Company reserves the right to change or modify the terms and conditions of any base compensation or incentive plan at any time. ..."
In the context of this conversation I have a very strong feeling that these conditions will eventually get me to night shift either in Tele or on Med-Surg.
Would I take it? I would have given it a thought if it was offered as Telemetry PM position.
Will I take it? That is what I was trying to decide last week and decided that I would rather pass, because something just doesn't feel right.