Afc

mageean · Feb 15, 2005

make sure you have an up to date Job description, signed by your manager, which reflects the job you do and the responsibilities and accountabilities. The bands are supposed to reflect the detail and responsibility attached to the job you do. I understand some of the early implementer sites are being matched at a comparable or lower grade so I have no great faith in A4C

karenG · Feb 15, 2005

ok first ............and I mean no disrespect here......... but are you a nurse practitioner with the appropriate qualifications?? ie have you undertaken either an honours or master degree in an accredited nurse practitioner pathway?? if not then you are not a nurse practitioner........... see the RCN definition of one.

if you are a real nurse practitioner then you should be at least an H grade now. nurse practitioners are expecting to come out as high 7 - but we are aiming for band 8.

but its all in the melting pot!!

Karen

paris2 · Feb 15, 2005

Karen

I am a nurse practitoner with BSc in nursing studies and Masters in my speciality with numerous research publications under my belt. Managment has given me a new F job description stating that 1st or 2nd is not required at this grade.

G-grade nurse practitioner has also recieved their job description, but in theirs MA qualification is necessary. Our G-grade does not even possess 1st degree yet.

We have told that F's & G's will be in same band.

RCN definition of one NP's does not mean anything to managment as they have own rules and regulation which we have to adhere to. Sad but its true.

karenG · Feb 15, 2005

Karen
I am a nurse practitoner with BSc in nursing studies and Masters in my speciality with numerous research publications under my belt. Managment has given me a new F job description stating that 1st or 2nd is not required at this grade.
G-grade nurse practitioner has also recieved their job description, but in theirs MA qualification is necessary. Our G-grade does not even possess 1st degree yet.
We have told that F's & G's will be in same band.
RCN definition of one NP's does not mean anything to managment as they have own rules and regulation which we have to adhere to. Sad but its true.

ouch!!

why are you still there??? I take you are in secondary care? out here in primary care, NP's are valued........! I'm an NP with an extended and supplementary prescribing qualification........ just been told by my GP's that when I do cover for them, I will get paid locum fees......! most NP's in primary care are paid at H level, some at I. I know that secondary care NP's seem to be having problems with the AfC stuff.

are you a member of the NPUK mailing list?? we have been talking long and hard about this issue. If youre not and you want details.. please email me.

I'm stunned at how little you are valued

Karen

madwife2002, BSN, RN · Feb 21, 2005

I wouldnt be stunned, it seems all health care professionals are undervalued and it doesnt seem to matter whether you are here in the Uk or anywhere else in the world. There are one or two individuals which seem to luck in and I feel I am one of them in my current job but it is not consistent. AFC will not bring about much change apart from discontent because once the KSF's kick in then all staff will be worrying about getting through thresholds or gateways. We all know now there is money for education but it is not bottomless and sometimes it seems the same people get the courses. I know we can do lots of in house training to meet KSF requirements, but how often can we not be spared from the workplace and have to send other more junior staff instead.

I feel that the E grades will be the most discontented due to being less careeer structure, D & E grade staff nurses are all mixed up together now. That will be very confusing for a time.

There is now talk that F's and G's will be in band 6 because the budget wont allow the G's to go into band 7.

On the plus side then the HA's will have to dig deep to ensure they do provide enough training to staff so that they can meet their gateways. What about the Nurses who are happy with their lot and dont want to continue to move up the ladder why should they be penalised, which they will be by AFC.

There will be more paperwork for the senior staff because it is my understanding that each member of staff will have an individualised KSF, and IPR's will be longer and will need to be more frequent to ensure nobody falls along the wayside.

Dont get me wrong I actively promote personnal and professional development on my ward, and any change should be welcomed, but i do have grave concerns because we all have worked with management who are shoddy with implementing change and I do not want any staff to miss out.

Well I'll get off my soap box now. :angryfire

madwife2002, BSN, RN · Feb 21, 2005

Did anybody read the article in the mail on sunday, which said that 44% of RN's here in Uk are now from overseas such as India, South Africa, Philopines. I found that incredible. So now in Uk only 56% of practicing nurses are trained in UK. We are a dying breed.

Thank god for the nurses who come from overseas because obviously we wouldn't have a Health service without them, as we couldnt manage on our own.

So Mr Blair what on earth are you going to do to encourage people in our country to train as RN's.

Because we cant stopgap forever

karenG · Feb 21, 2005

the concept behind AfC is good... being paid for we actually do. However.. it all comes down to accurate job descriptions and I'm having real problems writing mine!! I have 2 jobs.. one in general practice and one for the PCT. general practice have decided not to adopt AfC.. so ho hum.

the gateways.. well dont think thats quite as scary as you paint it. no-one is making anyone go through the things! and the gateways are being set high in the pay bands so think logically. the pay bands and KSF is based on the premise that after a certain amount of time, you will have reached a certain competency and thus go through the gateway. Everyone will have an annual appriasial. Its up to the individual to identify their educational needs. the employer should then meet those needs. IF when time comes for a gateway, you havent met the KSF and its because you havent been enabled by your employer to meet those identified needs, because of staffing etc then you will pass through the gateway. if you havent met the KSF because you decided not to go to the training even though you could have, then you wont. Does that make sense? so its not as dark as would seem.

staffing levels.........ah well back in the bad old days when I training........... student nurses were on the wards within 9 weeks of starting training. we knew what we had signed up for!! there was a high drop out rate at 18/12- similiar to the drop out rate at qualification now. we actually disliked degree nurses 'cos they never wanted to get their hands dirty (and now I'm a degree nurse!) maybe in the drive to be professionals and get recognition as such we are training nurses who dont want to do the basic nursing care etc. as a nurse I am aghast when I have patients discharged to me with foot drop and pressure areas. I have worked with sister who would have pinned you to the wall and slowly skinned you alive for allowing a patient to develop a pressure sore. I dont our training was brilliant, but we did deliver good care. I think the present training has a lot that is good but a lot that is bad. As a training practice we are host to student nurses.........and I have to say, the majority of them I wouldnt let within 100 feet of a patient! better pay and conditions is the key. we want respect.. I cant respect a nurse that says she can give good patient care while wearing a ton of makeup, hair all over the place and earings/rings etc. no unifrom code to speak of. thats how the students dress that we get...........and they get sent home to tidy up.

we need......... better pay and conditions, more respect for ourselves and the work we do. to take a pride in what we do, in delivering the care we give and to always put the patient first. we need to attract back all the nurses who have left because of the unfriendly hours.........there are lots of nurses my age who are not working because of the shift patterns and rotation onto nights. I would not work a 12hr day.. I have children and family commitments and it would be impossible to do. we need to provide affordable good child care and maybe afterschool clubs. we know what we need to do. I just wish someone would do it!!

and while I'm on the soap box..........they can leaver our pensions alone, how about giving us some health care benifits? the police get free glasses, the met police get free travel in london... what do we get???

ok off the soap box for today!

Karen

madwife2002, BSN, RN · Feb 21, 2005

' I cant respect a nurse that says she can give good patient care while wearing a ton of makeup, hair all over the place and earings/rings etc. no unifrom code to speak of. thats how the students dress that we get...........and they get sent home to tidy up.'

I couldnt agree more with all your statements especially the one above!

Sometimes I feel we have gone so far the other way that as a SSN I am 'afraid' ( not really but you know what I mean) of asking the students to do anything!!!

I didnt mean to make gateways sound scarey but I am concerned re the suitability of some staff to be able to pass because of lack of training ect and this could be used as an excuse by some.

I enjoyed your soapbox lol.

Made me laugh prior to work as I am often stood on one!!!!

maggimay · Feb 25, 2005

' I cant respect a nurse that says she can give good patient care while wearing a ton of makeup, hair all over the place and earings/rings etc. no unifrom code to speak of. thats how the students dress that we get...........and they get sent home to tidy up.'
I couldnt agree more with all your statements especially the one above!
Sometimes I feel we have gone so far the other way that as a SSN I am 'afraid' ( not really but you know what I mean) of asking the students to do anything!!!
I didnt mean to make gateways sound scarey but I am concerned re the suitability of some staff to be able to pass because of lack of training ect and this could be used as an excuse by some.
I enjoyed your soapbox lol.
Made me laugh prior to work as I am often stood on one!!!!

You on soap box!! If you are it better be bigger enough for two!!

madwife2002, BSN, RN · Feb 25, 2005

You on soap box!! If you are it better be bigger enough for two!!

Now I wonder who you can be lol :chuckle

Welcome

BECKS BABE 2 · Mar 1, 2005

You on soap box!! If you are it better be bigger enough for two!!

Now i wonder who these two nurses could be2!!!!!!!!!.You both remind me of people that i work with.