ADNs- I was wrong, and I apologize

[BrandyBSN]

Hey all.

Many of the student nurses have already heard this, but for those who were not online when I got home, I will explain.

Many ADNs have taken a few of my posts as condescending. I didnt outward say exactly what I thought, but their conclusions may have been right.

I did think that a BSN nurse was better than an ADN nurse. But I didnt have all the facts. Logically, I could not understand why anyone who dispute this "fact". Unfortunately, for my pride anyways", it is not always a fact.

In theory, my thoughts were "if I have been doing assessments for 4 years, and you ADNs have been doing it for 2, have on earth can you say that I would not be better at it than you?" But, I had the wrong "facts".

After going home this weekend to play golf, i talked to a few of my friends from highschool that have gone into nursing at different universities. They were a year behind me in school, and they are juniors in their BSN programs now. They were talking about "just starting assessments". I asked "havent you been doing that for a while now?" I was shocked to learn that they hadnt done ANYTHING related to nursing in the past 2 years. They were just starting.

You see, in my nursing program, we start doing assessments as Freshmen, during our first semester. So I assumed that all nursing programs did that if they offered BSNs. I learned that this is NOT the case. From what I gathered, my program is an exception, not a rule. Many dont even accept students into the nursing major until 60 credit hours have been completed, and they have junior status. If this is the case, then BSN nurses who have attended those programs have no more "nursing" education than those who have an ADN, and have gone for 2 years also.

I cried when I found out. I learned that I was SOOO wrong! I thought that since my physical assessments, and clinical skills started when I was a freshman, that all other programs were the same way. I will have had 4 years of assessment technique when I graduate with my BSN, but not all BSNs have that. Many started out when clinicals started in the JR year, not before. SO they really do only have 2 years of "nursing", and 2 years of gen eds. Same experience level, same length of nursing education...

Not all programs are like mine, and not all programs are just for the JR/SR years... but learning this has really changed my opinion on a lot of issues.

I honestly dont "think" I meant to be condescending in my posts, but in all likelyhood, I probably was. I am a student, 21 years old, and I often jump to a side before I have all the facts. I am still young, and still learning... but I can promise you all this. From now on I will look much more closely at the "quality" of the education, not the quantity".

I am still very proud of my BSN education, which really is nursing for the full 4 years here, but I guess I am "more" proud of my nursing program than I actually am of my degree. I'll still wear it on my name badge, and I will still sign it once I pass my NLCEX, but i will think about it differently now. It doesnt quiet hold the same "status" symbol for me that if did before this weekend. All programs are not created equally, and all nurses are not created equally, but the degree that you hold says very little about who you are, and what you do. I always felt that I would be a Bachelor of Science in Nursing degree holder first, a nurse second... I feel like I will be a Registered nurse, who happens to have a Bachelors Degree. Quite a turn around for my stubborn brain. Yeah, im still damned proud, but not of my degree as much as what I have learned, and what kind of a nurse I hope to be, and what I can do for other nurses and my patients.

So... here is the apology part of my post. Tricia, Anne, LeAnn, and any other ADN nurses that I have offended, or have been condescending to, rather purposefully, or subconsciencely, I am truely sorry. But I can promise you this... My way of thinking has changed. Qualtily is better than quantity, experience always outranks education, and this chick KNOWS that she has a lot of learn. And I thank you for helping me learn this valuable lesson. I am sure I will be a better nurse because of what I have learned from all of you.

Thanks for Reading,

BrandyBSN

[nurseleigh]

This is in reply to your post

Now, do you think it would be honest for me to say, when some one asks me how long I have been a nurse, for me to count all the "LPN" time I have in, or should I tell them I am a new RN?

I am sure that you meant no harm by this statement, but from the perspective of an LPN student, I was kind of offended by this statement.

You imply that an LPN isn't a nurse. We are all "nurses", just with varying educations and roles. You should be very proud of the years you have spent as an LPN.

Thanks for listening to my side.

[CarolineRn]

Originally posted by nurseleigh

This is in reply to your post

Now, do you think it would be honest for me to say, when some one asks me how long I have been a nurse, for me to count all the "LPN" time I have in, or should I tell them I am a new RN?

I am sure that you meant no harm by this statement, but from the perspective of an LPN student, I was kind of offended by this statement.

You imply that an LPN isn't a nurse. We are all "nurses", just with varying educations and roles. You should be very proud of the years you have spent as an LPN.

Thanks for listening to my side.

nurseleigh,

I don't think she "implied" anything. I do think you are reading too much into this.

Do I think you would be honest if you were to say that you have been an Nurse for [insert LPN experience here]? Sure... But if you were asked "How long have you been an RN?" then you must differentiate. You have been an LPN for all those years, not an RN. Does that make you less capable of doing just as good as or a better job than an RN? Absolutely not. But an RN has to take an entirely different set of boards than an LPN does, whether you're a BSN or an ADN.

This is an educational issue, and Brandy was talking about the amount of clincal experience an ADN gets in school vs. what a BSN gets. Nothing about real life experience here.

Sometimes I have to wonder why some of us always feel we are being condescended to, even when it's not the case.

[MRed94]

Just a clarification here.....

I have NEVER been ashamed of my LPN, and I have NEVER NOT felt like a NURSE, being a LPN. I was aking about how to answer regarding my RN, when it comes about....

I will always be honest about my training, and will always be grateful for the experience of being a LPN.

Most of the best mentors I have had have been LPNs.

I wouldn't have traded the time as an LPN for anything.

And, most of the time, I feel that my years of experience have taught me that a nurse is a nurse is a nurse.....and I have never felt the need to differentiate unless it was something I was not trained to do. Then I say, "I will get the RN for you, and we will help you with......"

I didn't mean any disrespect to ANY nurse, ESPECIALLY my fellow LPNs. I will always be an LPN in my heart, just a RN on my name tag.....

:)

Marla

[Yocanohawken]

I just want to thank you Marla (Thank you SO much) for your post, you just re-clarified for me 'why' I am going the route I am going! My 'plan' is to start at LPN and work my way to where I want to be...I don't feel jumping right into becoming an RN is for me right now. Marla, you are So valued for your opinion!!! You've cheered me up

[UVaRN2Be]

I work at UVA. I am in the ADN program at a community college here in the area. I have "heard" that the BSN program at UVA does not have the amount of clinical time as the ADN program at the community college. I have also heard people say that when they interviewed for a job that they were told they would rather hire a ADN for the nursing experience because a BSN is geared more toward managing. This is only what I have heard...

Beginning my third week of lab, (this is my first year,)we start clinicals. They are from 0700 until 1500.

That was a good post Brandy... It takes a good person to admit to being wrong.

Meredith

[BrandyBSN]

I dont know where UVA is?

It is true, BSN programs are often seen as more the "managment" way to go, but we can be darn good bedside nurses too :) All of my classes thus far have been more related to bedside nursing than managment. We do take one Staff Management class (I am taking it right now), It is called Care Coordination. We are learning how to make patient assignments, leadership roles, and a lot of the "legal" stuff that comes along with management. Its only a 2 hour class, but it is pretty neat. Every week, in the last 2 years of the program here, we have a minimum of 16 hours a week clinical, usually 6am-2pm, then a few hours afterwards for discussion. This year I have 16 hours of clinical a week(Rural Public Health Clinical), plus 5 hours on weekends (my Critical Care/ER Clinical). That is just my program, its the only one i know much about, but I find it unlikely that many programs would require more than that, although possible!

Personally, I have never heard of a job opening "prefering" an ADN, but I guess in some areas, its possible. Most in the papers here, and at the human resources department say "current RN licensure required". I have seen a few, not many, say "BSN prefered" so it would be possible to see "ADN prefered", I just havent seen it yet :)

Thanks!

BrandyBSN

[NurseAngie]

Brandy BSN, you have just shown how grown up you really are. Bravo Bella! I am happy that you have learned a valuable lesson in humility and are all the better for it. One thing I want to say is that you are a NURSE first. Once you put all of your self worth into your degree, you are not able to put all of your self into Nursing. I do personally beleive that Nursing is my "calling". I will always be thankful that the lord has blessed me with all that he has to enable me to undertake such a challenging and rewarding profession. (I'm not talking $$$$ here. We all know the pay is never enough to compensate us for all that we do in a day.)

I'm not even going to get in to the whole BSN-vs-ADN thing here. We all have our reasons for doing what we do. I'm sure that no one comes fresh from nursing school knowing EVERYTHING. When you get out "on the floor", you aren't even going to have time to think about what degree you got. You are still going to be a NURSE. A nurse that works with DOCTORS. Doctors who have spent a heck of a lot more time in school than most of the nurses they work with. So, I hope you can see where I'm going with this. The doc isn't going to say...Hey you , BSN girl. You do the surgery while I go take a nap. No, she's going to say...hey nurse, get me those clamps STAT, get that blood hung NOW, get that ... ! I plan to be that nurse that has it before she even has to ask for it. Does it matter what nursing program I went to? Not really. (I wish there was a diploma program where I'm going next. My experience has been that they are very prepared for nursing.) Does it matter that I am "on top of my game"? You bet. I will be. Goodnight Nurses!:)

[zannie]

Brandy,

I hear ya!!! The 2 schools I was deciding on, SU and GMU...... SU starts nursing courses right in freshman year (the first clinical is in the 2nd semester of the freshman year). GMU doesn't do ANY nursing courses until Junior year.

That's one of the reasons I prefer SU to GMU. The "prereq's" are interspersed (sp?) between clinicals throughout the first 3 years, then the last year is all clinical.

I wish most programs were like that.... it makes more sense to start doing nursing stuff right away. For me it, it is keeping me "psyched" about school. :) I hate the prereq's, it's the nursing classes I want to take!! But taking the nursing clasess right from the beginning is keeping me psyched enough to care about my prereq's too :)

--zan :)

[UVaRN2Be]

:)

Hi Brandy,

I dont think I have seen a ADN preferred either, yes BSN I have seen a few times. I am just stating what has been told to me by a manager. I do work with wonderful bedside nurses that have a BSN, also the ones that have an ADN. I also work with a few that have either and they are horrible nurses. I think it depends on the nurse not her credentials. I also know a MSN that thinks she is above all.. NOT....

I have chosen to go the ADN route first because of the time involved for the BSN. I do plan on doing the ADN to BSN in a year after I have received my degree and worked in the field for a while.

UVA is the University of Virginia.

I just want to second the level of maturity that you have. It is sometimes something that we dont see much of...

Have a good evening