ADN programs with low NCLEX pass rate/ high completion

**NICU Guy, BSN, RN** · Jul 5, 2020

8 hours ago, DMQ48 said:
When I look at the incoming vs. graduating photos, nearly half the class is gone in most of them, sometimes more and that just doesn't add up with the completion rates they have published on their sites.

There is a multitude of reasons why a graduating class has less students then when they started that don't involve the evil practices of the school. Students have financial issues and sit out a semester, illness that caused them to miss too many classes and dropped out that semester, pregnancy, spouse relocation, decided that nursing was not for them.

ACEN and CCNE look at the retention rates and reasons when schools go through their periodic re-accreditation visit. I would look at nationally accredited schools with a high NCLEX pass rate.

guest874748 · Jul 5, 2020

Thank you for the reply. Yeah from my hours (and hours!!) of online research, it looks like the state community colleges are the best option. I'm actually a Caribbean medical school drop out and went to a school that is owned by Devry, who does Chamberlain and I'm sure other for profit nursing programs now with ITT tech and University of Phoenix closing down. It was like the grim reaper came the first 2 semesters for half my class, me being one of them. There was always some magical way to make it through to sit for the USMLE's that involved giving them larger and larger sums of money. It's left me kind of cynical about the statistics universities report. In those for-profits' defense, my state school undergrad just never published any of that either, but this was back in 2013. I'm really not trying to do one a BSN if I don't have to, since it seems like the barrier to entry to all graduate programs is first getting the "RN" through a diploma or associates program and then jumping into a master's program bridge. It looks like it would cut about 1.5 years of classes and $$$ off of my goal, but first things first

NurseSparkly, ADN, BSN, RN · Jul 6, 2020

On 7/4/2020 at 11:45 AM, DMQ48 said:
It looks like a lot of schools boast about 99% NCLEX pass rates but finding the cohort completion rates are more difficult. When I look at the incoming vs. graduating photos, nearly half the class is gone in most of them, sometimes more and that just doesn't add up with the completion rates they have published on their sites. I'm not looking to be 'weeded' out so a school can have their great NCLEX pass rates. Anybody know of programs that have very high completion rates or, maybe as a better measure of not setting you up to fail the program, low NCLEX pass rates? Is there a link to school specific NCLEX pass rates somewhere that isn't promoting the school itself, like ACEN or CCNE?

I graduated from an ADN program state school here in NY. We started out with 132 first semester but only about 70 of us graduated. It does appear that some schools "weed" out the students but from personal experience; the classmates I lost either gave up on their own, failed a class and never came back due to the pressures, or had their first clinical and realized nursing was not for them. There are soo many reasons why we do not graduate with who we start with. As long as the school is accredited, just focus on getting through nursing school and passing the NCLEX.

londonflo · Jul 8, 2020

On 7/5/2020 at 2:23 PM, DMQ48 said:
a Caribbean medical school drop out and went to a school that is owned by Devry, who does Chamberlain and I'm sure other for profit nursing programs now with ITT tech and University of Phoenix closing down. It was like the grim reaper came the first 2 semesters for half my class, me being one of them.

I have read that the Caribbean medical schools admit far more students than there are clinical sites for. When the curriculum is adding clinical placement, faculty must double down on figuring out who will go on. Is this true?

On nursing board sites publish the NCLEX pass rates, at least in my state , the number of test writers is also identified.

With the passage of the 1990 Student Right to Know Act, the percent of people who graduate “within 150% of the normal time for completion of or graduation from the program” must be made public by any degree-granting postsecondary institution. They don't have to make it easy to find.They do not have to publish retention rates but most do. You may need to search for this information on the school's website or ask it of the admission staff.

guest874748 · Jul 8, 2020

Your "big four" SGU, AUC, SABA and Ross don't really do that. Big four means "California list of approved schools" and "US student loans"- you can practice anywhere in the USA with no problem after getting a residency. You are also paying big for opportunity, I think SGU is $300,000 not including living expenses. More like, getting you stuck in a "remediation" that I see some of the for-profit nursing schools here in the US doing. You do your first 4 months consecutively on the island which is your "basic sciences" -anatomy, histology, a couple of BS philosophy courses, so I never made it into the clinical portion (which is in the US). The clinical sites are in the major hospitals of large cities, about 90% of them are in NYC, Houston and Chicago and you can do them back-to-back.

The schools that did that were mostly the middle tiers. Middle tiers would sell their souls to be one of the big four and will do just about anything to have their USMLE pass rates/residency placements so they can be the next "Big Five." You are a sacrifice they're willing to make, after getting $17,000 x how ever many semesters they can string you along! They're usually opened by former deans and board members of the big four. UMHS, AUA, MUA st. Matthews. They have trouble getting "good" clinical sites (greenbook rotations) and are willing to make you sit out for months until one opens up. Clinicals at these schools take about 5 years, even though they're technically the same amount of weeks for all schools (upper, middle, low). These schools are notorious for lying to students for just about everything, mostly promises of pending medical board approval in various states that never comes to fruition. In my opinion, going to these schools is the worst option as they don't qualify for US loans, are still pretty expensive and don't give you any extra "certification" like the big 4 do (so guaranteed approval in your state to practice).

Then you have the low tiers, and oh gosh, I actually admire the shamelessness of them LOL Windsor, Atlantic, there's a ton. They offer everything a middle tier does as far as practicing in your state, minus actually learning anything. They're cheap(er) too, about $6000/semester on the island and $7500 for the US clinical semesters. These are the bottom of the barrel clinical spots the middle tier schools won't let their students go into even if they wanted, but you can do these back to back. Horrible USMLE pass rates. It can be done and I do think these are a better option if you can't get in to the Big Four because you don't have the stress of the hoops the middle tiers make you jump through, more like a quasi-diploma mill that enables you to sit for the USMLEs.

That said, if you have what it takes to get into the Big Four, I still don't think it's worth it. 80% of those grads get internal med or family practice residencies and if they want to "go higher" they have to do a fellowship for another 4 years (surgeon, radiologist). It can be done, I've seen it (it's mildly painful for me to look at my old classmates I've still kept in contact with on FB and see them in residencies so I try not LOL) I just wish I would have explored the scope of practice nurses had. If your grades are competitive enough for the big four, you can definitely get into one of the CRNA, direct entry NP programs, midwife. I mean it's just so much less daunting and expensive. Master's degree vs. Doctorate + minimum 3 year residency.

Sorry for the paper, LOL it's just I wish someone would have spelled this out for me when I was in that 'post-useless bachelor's degree' limbo of my life.

londonflo · Jul 8, 2020

1 hour ago, DMQ48 said:
80% of those grads get internal med or family practice residencies and if they want to "go higher" they have to do a fellowship for another 4 years (surgeon, radiologist).

Graduates of totally based US medical schools also have to do fellowships for specialty areas (surgery, radiologist) etc. I am assuming the path of an AUC graduate is the same, doing internship/residence/fellowship.

I was wondering if "clerkships" were limited and that is why there is a house cleaning of students prior to the start of those?

guest874748 · Jul 8, 2020

Oh yeah, it's definitely a way to skew numbers. The "Match" is what you apply for after you graduate no matter what school you graduate from for your residency. The low tier students didn't have access to greenbook (aka teaching hospitals) so they are usually chosen last (stellar usmle scores can make up for this, but that's kind of a pipe dream). Middle tier students are next (they had greenbook clinicals) but the Big Four grads nearly always match (albeit not always very desirable residencies) because the school does a roundabout way of buying them from the hospital. A middle tier grads need higher USMLE scores than a Big Four grad because their schools aren't contracted with the teaching hospital directly, it's pretty sketchy but eh, that's life.

Middle tier programs basically want to showcase their best and brightest during the clinical phase to teaching hospitals so they can get contracts for residencies, hence trying to get rid of students right before/shortly after they come back from the island's basic science portion.

londonflo · Jul 8, 2020

Thank you for information from one "in the trenches" so to speak. My son was able to get his first choice - The Brigham in Boston for his match but it was expected as he was first in his class at Loyola. I thought since some spots remained without "matches", there is another lottery for those spots still available and everyone ended up somewhere.

guest874748 · Jul 9, 2020

That is awesome! BTW thank you for showing me how to look up the NCLEX pass rates by school that is on the state BON websites, I kept searching and getting directed to general pass rates of entire state's NCLEX takers or just to a specific program's pass rate. Being able to see a list of each school in the state has cut out so much time