Accelerated Second BSN Degree Vs. CNL plus Post Master's Certificate Program

SiennaGreen · Jul 27, 2007

A good question to ask might be: will you be able to get a position that will give you valuable experiance toward your NP and also clarifying your career goals as a CNL? I don't know the answer to that, but I am sure that as an RN you can gain both during a couple years of working. just a thought.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jul 27, 2007

If you're goal is to be a NP, my advice is to get your BSN, work as a nurse while you get your ARNP.

The CNL will get you a Masters Degree but then you'll have to add on many courses to get your NP which will take longer. Also the BSN will get you some valuable hands-on nursing while you're working on your NP.

Getting a CNL job without experience might be tough.

imenid37 · Jul 27, 2007

My advice. Go for the BSN and work as an RN for a few years while you pursue your NP degree. The education you will get from experience at the bedside will serve you well. I am still not clear on the CNL concept. How can one be a clinical nurse leader when one has no clinical experience? I think nursing is going in the wrong direction here. We need to strengthen BASIC entry level nursing education, and reward experience and expertise. Calling someone a leader who has no experience doesn't serve nursing or more importantly patients. I don't mean to offend, I just can't believe the whole CNL concept surfacing during such a shortage. We need more nursing caregivers, not more supervisory titles.

michelle54 · Jul 27, 2007

I totally agree with imenid37, in that your best experience is to be a nurse first, then move on to being a nurse practitioner or a Clinical Leader. I've worked with "so called" clinical leaders who have no current acute care experience, and it's not pretty. What a busy floor needs is for the CL to be an asset; someone who can jump in with an extra pair of hands, not someone who has no idea how to take care of a patient. Also, at our hospital, we have NPs rounding on some patients, and I can tell they have either never worked on a floor or it's been years, as some of their orders are unworkable.

I switched careers in my 40's, and had no idea what the healthcare industry was all about. It took more than my clinicals; it took working on a busy floor in a hospital to really get a good grasp at how a hospital works (and how screwed up it can be).

I'd say, get in there and get your hands dirty before you commit the time, money and effort to get advanced degrees.

RFWB · Jul 27, 2007

Here is another perspective - if financial aid is important to you, the BSN is a death trap. Financial aid for a second bachelor's degree is more or less non-existant. I was considering the same route, until I realized how cost-prohibitive the accelerated BSN was in my area - about $20,000 UP FRONT for a 14th month program.

I know that direct-entry MSN-NP programs are criticized because of a lack of nursing experience prior to becoming an NP, but they can be a valid option (and someitmes the ONLY option) for some students because they circumvent the difficulty that a second bachelors/career-transitioning student encounters in trying to get financial aid.

Can you find a direct entry program that suits you? Or, are you better off getting an ADN first, work as a nurse with your ADN (that will be cheaper to come by than the BSN) , and THEN find an MSN NP program?

It's easy to sneer at the direct entry programs, until you are faced with the difficult question of how you will finance doing it any other way.

Just a different perspective - hope that helps!

Trauma Columnist · Jul 27, 2007

A direct-entry for CNL? Hmm - my understanding of this was that this position would be the "expert clinician" for a floor or type of care rendered. If that is the case, a nurse with no experience couldn't be considered an "expert clinician."

imenid37 · Jul 28, 2007

A direct-entry for CNL? Hmm - my understanding of this was that this position would be the "expert clinician" for a floor or type of care rendered. If that is the case, a nurse with no experience couldn't be considered an "expert clinician."

The program I am most familiar with is the one offered by my alma mater: University of MD. Check out this link for more info.: http://nursing.umaryland.edu/programs/ms/accel.htm

imenid37 · Jul 28, 2007

It's easy to sneer at the direct entry programs, until you are faced with the difficult question of how you will finance doing it any other way.
Just a different perspective - hope that helps!

I don't think these programs are a good idea. I say this w/ 20 years of nursing experience. I am currently in a nurse educator program for my MSN. The fact that we have this nursing shortage and these programs are the only way for a second degree student to get into nursing financially, in some cases is absurd. It just goes to show that there are many in educational circles who do not want to improve care at the bedside and address the shortage, but rather seek to advance their own political/academic agenda. If you put one of these individuals (CNL's) on a unit with a group of experienced nurses, physicians, multi-disciplinary team members, they won't be effective leaders because they lack legitimate authority and expertise. That is my opinion. I know others might feel differently. If you want to be a nurse leader, advanced practice nurse, or nurse educator, you ought to be a nurse first.

RFWB · Jul 28, 2007

I don't think these programs are a good idea. I say this w/ 20 years of nursing experience. I am currently in a nurse educator program for my MSN. The fact that we have this nursing shortage and these programs are the only way for a second degree student to get into nursing financially, in some cases is absurd. It just goes to show that there are many in educational circles who do not want to improve care at the bedside and address the shortage, but rather seek to advance their own political/academic agenda. If you put one of these individuals (CNL's) on a unit with a group of experienced nurses, physicians, multi-disciplinary team members, they won't be effective leaders because they lack legitimate authority and expertise. That is my opinion. I know others might feel differently. If you want to be a nurse leader, advanced practice nurse, or nurse educator, you ought to be a nurse first.

I agree, it is absurd - but in some cases, it really is fact. I choose higher education in a field that I loved but was not high-paying, and after sinking thousands of dollars into my 1st education/career, it's not feasible or responsible of me to expend the amount of $ an A-BSN would take w/o help.

Interestingly enough though, i do agree with you - experience must be a vital part of being an NP. But all of the direct entry MSN-NP programs I've researched INCLUDE the same time frame and curriculum as the accelerated BSN - without the lack of receiving financial aid for a 2nd baccalaureate degree, because it is a MSN. And, most students in the tracks I've researched take time to work as an RN upon completion of the 1st portion of the program, while they complete the MSN. This means the opportunity to have at least 2 years of nursing experience while working on the MSN (and I realize two years is not alot, but it's not "no experience" either).

It may not be ideal, and direct entry NP Grads may have a disadvantage to experienced NP's, like any other new grad. But I'd consider the direct entry program before an accelerated BSN that I'd have to pay $20,000 out-of-pocket for, with NO financial aid. Those students w/o the financial restrictions I have are certainly free to choose the "ideal" way. :) I also stand behind my statement that the OP might be wasting his/her time with the BSN, when for them, an ADN might open up the same pathways and be cheaper, since the BSN is NOT a requirement in light of RN to MSN pathways and the op already has a bachelors degree.

Oh, and- you'll note I'm not saying anything about CNL programs via direct-entry (i'm not sure how the thread got onto that idea, but it wasn't from me). I think a CNL w/o experience must be a contradiction in terms. Just to clarify - I'm speaking only about NP programs, since the OP mentioned that as an end goal and it is one that I share as well.

imenid37 · Jul 30, 2007

I agree, it is absurd - but in some cases, it really is fact. I choose higher education in a field that I loved but was not high-paying, and after sinking thousands of dollars into my 1st education/career, it's not feasible or responsible of me to expend the amount of $ an A-BSN would take w/o help.
Interestingly enough though, i do agree with you - experience must be a vital part of being an NP. But all of the direct entry MSN-NP programs I've researched INCLUDE the same time frame and curriculum as the accelerated BSN - without the lack of receiving financial aid for a 2nd baccalaureate degree, because it is a MSN. And, most students in the tracks I've researched take time to work as an RN upon completion of the 1st portion of the program, while they complete the MSN. This means the opportunity to have at least 2 years of nursing experience while working on the MSN (and I realize two years is not alot, but it's not "no experience" either).
It may not be ideal, and direct entry NP Grads may have a disadvantage to experienced NP's, like any other new grad. But I'd consider the direct entry program before an accelerated BSN that I'd have to pay $20,000 out-of-pocket for, with NO financial aid. Those students w/o the financial restrictions I have are certainly free to choose the "ideal" way. :) I also stand behind my statement that the OP might be wasting his/her time with the BSN, when for them, an ADN might open up the same pathways and be cheaper, since the BSN is NOT a requirement in light of RN to MSN pathways and the op already has a bachelors degree.
Oh, and- you'll note I'm not saying anything about CNL programs via direct-entry (i'm not sure how the thread got onto that idea, but it wasn't from me). I think a CNL w/o experience must be a contradiction in terms. Just to clarify - I'm speaking only about NP programs, since the OP mentioned that as an end goal and it is one that I share as well.

I agree w/ you re. the ADN route for some w/ other bacculaureate degrees. My daughter is in an ADN program now / many second career adults who already have a BA/BS. My opinion of the direct entry CNL is that it is a bad idea no matter what. I also think the accelerated BSN in just a year is just not enough time to learn how to be a nurse. I would have to agree the NP route would be preferable to the direct entry CNL. The best would be if, due to the "shortage", the govt. would buck up w/ some $ for the basic nursing degree. Good luck to everyone in the education!