A Word To The Wise.........

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Have been hearing a number of complaints about workers in dialysis, harassing and assaulting dialysis patients. It is assault under the law to touch someone when they have asked you not to touch them. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903.13 I have heard complaints of dialysis patients having their feet stepped on by dialysis personnel during a treatment, blood being thrown on the dialysis patient or dialysis patient's being hit with a salt water bag. In addition, I have heard complaints about patients asking that certain dialysis personnel not perform fistula sticks on them, after that dialysis worker hurt them the first time of the sticking. Again, if the patient asks you not touch them and that worker ignores the patient, that is grounds for an assault charge.

I have also heard of complaints where patients are being discharged and they have no clue that is coming..... I have also heard of "meetings" where the Kidney specialist, FA, Nurse, and Social Worker are in a room and stacked against the patient, who is ambushed and is unable to defend themselves. Please be advised, if the charges are false, the patient can hire an attorney and file a lawsuit for libel and slander. If the patient dies because of these actions, there is a possible wrongful death suit pursued by the patient's estate, in addition to a libel and slander.....

I really like the vast majority of you and I think you really care about the patients. However, as we all know, there are bad apples in any field, police included. I have advised patients who are assaulted by dialysis staff, to call 9-11 and press assault charges. I have also advised dialysis patients who are assaulted to contact their local district attorneys or victim's advocates.

I have also been told of cases where dialysis patients have been unfairly discharged, and given an option of a dialysis clinic 50-60 miles away from their home. Yes, I know this type of harassment goes on, it happens in government, all of the time. I was also told of a case where a man in a wheelchair with no legs, was discharged from a dialysis under police escort. As a former police officer, it is outrageous. Honestly, what do you think a man with no legs in a wheelchair is going to do to you???

Having worked as a police officer, I know and understand that there are two sides to every pancake and I have been cussed at, called every name in the book, ****** on, you name it, I have experienced it, before you say, "You do not know what it is like."

I have also heard of patients been discharged for disagreeing with reuse and for asking questions about their treatments. I also know that in those "meetings" the patient is not allowed to see the comments and charges against them, sounds like the old Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. Yes, if you are curious, my family is from Germany.

Yes, I know, many times management blames Nursing and it always is it so..... In fact, it happened to my mom. I know that many of you are good people :) However, my word to the wise to the bad apples, is that you are going to have some very unpleasant results if you abuse or assault dialysis patients. If you go to jail for this crime, I hate to tell you that the other inmates at the jail hit back. If you are curious, a misdemeanor of the first degree or M1 is six months in jail and a $1,000 fine.

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Specializes in Med-Surg.

Sure, well I've heard of a lot more unpleasant dialysis patients who are verbally and physically aggressive with nursing staff, and Lord knows charges are rarely pressed, much less being discharged from care.

But don't worry, I'm definitely one of the nurses who won't touch a patient if they tell me not to touch them. And I'll hand them the AMA form too.

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Yes, I am aware that patients make wrongful statements against the Nurse, did investigations for many years. However, there are just too many complaints...... In fact, most of the complaints are being made against Techs, not the Nursing staff. I really would love to be wrong. As a patient rep, I never tolerated aggressive behavior toward the staff for no reason. I have told those people if they cannot stop, they will be discharged and I will not help them when it happens. Some days, I felt like a referee. In my clinic, patients did not abuse the staff, because I did not tolerate it. In fact, it came to the point that the Head RN would just turn them over to me. I could get away with saying things to them that the Nursing staff could not.... One of the patients at my dialysis clinic was getting aggressive with one of the Nurses about using a c-pap.... At that point, I told him the facts of life about not using his c-pap and what was going to happen to him if he did not use it, it would be like a drunk on the highway. I told him that he needed to act with some sense and not be an idiot.

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Specializes in Dialysis.

Can't we all just get along? I don't appreciate being threatened with being shot if I don't do what you want, or my family being threatened because in your neighborhood that's considered normal. We have patients who have been kicked out of every clinic in town because of their violent, aggressive behaviour. Some are convicted murderers. If I misbehave there is a board of nursing that will discipline me and may even take away my license. Anyone could make a complaint against me and the board would investigate. Show me the dialysis patient who has been charged for assaulting a nurse or PCT.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

I'm confused...what is this thread about? Staff assaulting patients? Do you all know each other?

OP To whom are you speaking? You are a dialysis patient, a previous police officer, and a patient rep that has a clinic?

Assaulting patients should NEVER happen. ANYWHERE ANYTIME! If there is an issue it should be reported.

I am not sure what this post is about. Please explain for the less informed.

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dialysis patient's being hit with a salt water bag.

And that's where you lost me.

Upon reading your past posts, I see you're a dialysis patient and a former police officer, OP, two facts which you enjoy telling people. But I really don't care how much experience you have in dialysis or if your family is German or from the Antarctic. Your stories are anecdotal evidence at best. You'll notice that you won't get the attention of most folks on AN without strong evidence.

While it's a good reminder to all of us to watch out for our patients and we appreciate hearing feedback from someone who is a patient in the system, please don't come here and try to insinuate that there's a widespread problem in dialysis regarding the abuse of patients without the proper evidence to back you up.

Nurses also have a code of ethics that far supersedes any legal advice you could give us here. We're professionals. The vast majority of us know the boundaries between right and wrong, and believe me, those who don't care won't heed your warning anyway.

You'll find most of us are receptive to venting about personal experience. We all know the system isn't perfect. But no one here wants to hear a lecture.

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Chisca, I really appreciate you being so caring about patients, I respect you . I have extensive experience in dealing with felons. 95 percent of Nurses care about patients. :) Most of my family is in Nursing and I adore the Nursing staff at IU, they are great nurses and even better people. :) I do not condone, nor have I ever, that type of behavior towards the dialysis staff for no reason. It is just a small minority of dialysis staff. The one Davita clinic I went to, close to home, is excellent, they do a great job with the patients was very impressed :) It was Davita Home Clinic that was off of their rockers. It was not just the nursing staff, it was all of them. The In-center clinic did their best to keep the clinic clean and they treated the patients with respect. :) I would recommend them to anyone, they do a good job.

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Yes, I would agree, 98 percent of Nurses are professionals and yes, the vast majority of Nurses know right from wrong. However, as I have found out, many times in my life, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I have seen many abuses of power in these types of situations and I have seen many abuses of power far worse than any dialysis staff. Colleges are some of the most corrupt and arrogant people that I have ever met, bar none..... In addition, many in the public schools are extremely arrogant much more so than any Nurse..... My stepdaughter is special needs and it is not the teachers, who I really like, it is the administration....... Love the teachers :)

I know and realize that the vast majority of the policies are made by higher-ups, not the Nursing staff. It would be the same thing as blaming the gas attendant for the price of gas.......

I have had a number of nurses who work for the large chains tell me that they did not agree with the policies of the management of the chains. In fact, there were many times that we agreed, probably around 90 percent of the time. The problems in dialysis are the fault of upper management..... No, I am not against or opposed to the clinics making money. If you have read some of my Facebook posts, you would realize that I am not a Socialist. :)

It is the fault of upper management that dialysis patients are not receiving enough treatment. Granted, many dialysis patients do not want Nocturnal and if it is offered to them and they do not take it, then do not cry to the Nurse or me when you have fluid overload. I do dialysis, 5-6 days per week, Nocturnal because I care about my health and being there for my stepdaughter. :)

I have found in my 7 and half years on dialysis, that the body or the human system is not made and does not like only 12 hours of dialysis treatment. The human kidney removes fluid and toxins at a much slower pace at night.

One of the few things that really bothers me is individuals blaming the person on dialysis for being a diabetic...... The cause of diabetes is unknown, per the kidney departments at Johns Hopkins, Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, IU, University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati Children's Hospital, ranked #3 in the United States in the kidney field. I have met guys who have played in the NFL and their stomachs are like a washboard and huge arms, they are diabetics, can anyone explain that one to me? Many hard scientists with drug patents, Organic Chemists do not agree with the cholesterol theory and have stated that cholesterol lowering in women has never been proven effective. In addition, they stated that the BMI index has never been proven, science-wise.

I do not appreciate being talked down to..... I am a professional as well as with many of you, I have a four year college degree as well. Earned the grades to attend law school at Stanford(Starting salary of $160K). In addition, there are dialysis patients with Ph.D.'s in Physics and one who earned a Pharm.D. in Pharmacy while on the dialysis machine.

If you knew anything about being a police officer, we do not make allegations without hard evidence. It is an outrage that the staffing levels are not enough, one RN for how many patients, again? The RN with that type of ratio is going to make mistakes, that is again, the fault of upper management, along with not giving the Nursing staff enough supplies and not paying the Nursing staff or the techs reasonable wages for the level of expertise that the RN or tech has to have to work with the dialysis population. I would argue that the Nurse should have at least three nurses on duty at all times and make at least $40 per hour...... and the techs should be paid at least $20 per hour, then, you could hire college grads..... In addition, many problems in dialysis are caused by the government, and I do not have an essay to discuss that issue. Safe to say, the government does not know more about dialysis than an experienced dialysis RN, not even close. Calling in a dialysis nurse to the hospital at night is an incredible inconvenience for that Nurse and the Nurse's family......

DO NOT call or page the Nursing staff for B.S. calls in the middle of the night or on the weekends. Most issues can wait for the standard work day, 9-5....... I understand that when you first start, you are frightened. The rest of you, do not burn out the Nursing staff with nonsense calls, you do not want them to call you at 4:30a.m. so do not call them with foolish calls for no reason.

DO NOT be verbally abusive or physically abuse with the Nursing staff. If you do, I will make sure you go to jail. If it is in front of me, you will wish you had not done that.... They are stressed enough, already..... If you are coming for treatments, you better act with some sense...... I will not tolerate them abusing you, but, you better not abuse them, either. I understand that everyone has a bad day......

Believe it or not, the the people who abuse these groups, really tick me off, the disabled, seniors, and nurses.

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Yes, I would agree, 98 percent of Nurses are professionals and yes, the vast majority of Nurses know right from wrong. However, as I have found out, many times in my life, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I have seen many abuses of power in these types of situations and I have seen many abuses of power far worse than any dialysis staff. Colleges are some of the most corrupt and arrogant people that I have ever met, bar none..... In addition, many in the public schools are extremely arrogant much more so than any Nurse..... My stepdaughter is special needs and it is not the teachers, who I really like, it is the administration....... Love the teachers :)

I know and realize that the vast majority of the policies are made by higher-ups, not the Nursing staff. It would be the same thing as blaming the gas attendant for the price of gas.......

I have had a number of nurses who work for the large chains tell me that they did not agree with the policies of the management of the chains. In fact, there were many times that we agreed, probably around 90 percent of the time. The problems in dialysis are the fault of upper management..... No, I am not against or opposed to the clinics making money. If you have read some of my Facebook posts, you would realize that I am not a Socialist. :)

It is the fault of upper management that dialysis patients are not receiving enough treatment. Granted, many dialysis patients do not want Nocturnal and if it is offered to them and they do not take it, then do not cry to the Nurse or me when you have fluid overload. I do dialysis, 5-6 days per week, Nocturnal because I care about my health and being there for my stepdaughter. :)

I have found in my 7 and half years on dialysis, that the body or the human system is not made and does not like only 12 hours of dialysis treatment. The human kidney removes fluid and toxins at a much slower pace at night.

One of the few things that really bothers me is individuals blaming the person on dialysis for being a diabetic...... The cause of diabetes is unknown, per the kidney departments at Johns Hopkins, Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, IU, University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati Children's Hospital, ranked #3 in the United States in the kidney field. I have met guys who have played in the NFL and their stomachs are like a washboard and huge arms, they are diabetics, can anyone explain that one to me? Many hard scientists with drug patents, Organic Chemists do not agree with the cholesterol theory and have stated that cholesterol lowering in women has never been proven effective. In addition, they stated that the BMI index has never been proven, science-wise.

I do not appreciate been talked down to..... I am a professional as well as with many of you, I have a four year college degree as well. Earned the grades to attend law school at Stanford(Starting salary of $160K). In addition, there are dialysis patients with Ph.D.'s in Physics and one who earned a Pharm.D. in Pharmacy while on the dialysis machine.

If you knew anything about being a police officer, we do not make allegations without hard evidence.

I was hardly talking down to you. I was telling you how you came across.

You really don't seem to have any concept of how you sound in your OP. If someone who didn't like the way they were treated by the police came onto a police board and started talking about all the problems in the justice system and the police department specifically, I cannot imagine you or any of the other police officers would be impressed. As that is your area of expertise, the unsolicited opinion of someone on the outside who has no real concept of how the system functions comes across as uninformed, especially when only based on their very limited experience. Just because you're also a professional doesn't mean you know the first thing about the challenges of another profession.

I don't see anyone here blaming you for being a diabetic. Your angst is misplaced. As I don't have access the medical records of the men you allege are diabetics, I cannot offer you any real insight as to why they have diabetes. As you've pointed out before, the cause of diabetes is often unknown.

If you have hard evidence, you've failed to produce it. The percentages you've thrown around in your posts are based on your own experience. You have cited no articles. As I said before, your anecdotes are far from proof.

If you knew anything about being a nurse or a soldier, we don't believe anything without hard evidence.

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Specializes in Dialysis.

There is nothing in nursing like the "blue code of silence" that police officers have to protect abusers. My city can't even stomach a civilian review board so that police misconduct can be investigated by a group without a conflict of interest. The police in my city are a law unto themselves.

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There is nothing in nursing like the "blue code of silence" that police officers have to protect abusers. My city can't even stomach a civilian review board so that police misconduct can be investigated by a group without a conflict of interest. The police in my city are a law unto themselves.

Of course there is. I've worked in several areas of nursing and medicine where there is a very similar code. Managers who won't roll over on even the worst employees. Coworkers who witnessed firsthand abuse but won't speak up because they don't want to get their friend in trouble. And in the service, this mentality is multiplied times a billion.

That mentality is what forms toxic workplaces.

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By the way, I am sure when you tell people about your medical opinion, you tell them that you are a nurse. I only use police officer for professional credibility.

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