A Sticky Wicket

Nurses General Nursing

Updated:   Published

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Last night, I got into a disagreement with my best buddy's D-I-Ls. They wanted to use copies of the armbands of deceased patients, and display them publicly, as evidence against a hospital's wrongdoing. The copies were obtained by someone in their group who worked in medical records at the wrongdoing hospital.

I strongly encouraged them to familiarize themselves with HIPAA and explained it was a legal act to protect patients' confidentiality. One of the young ladies wryly said to me, "Get out of the system!"

I explained to her that I will bend the rules- even break the law- if it is the means to a greater end. I said that they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they used this information in their quest. The focus would not be on the wrongdoings of the hospital, but their wrongdoings in stealing patient information and breaching patient confidentiality.

The other D-I-L argued patient confidentiality didn't apply because the people were dead, I disagreed and again strongly encouraged them to gather more data before entering into this endeavor with great temerity.

The two held fast to their beliefs, so I gave them an ultimatum: Either they gain more knowledge before acting, come clean with their actions, or I would report them to the proper authorities.

What do you think about this situation?

Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.

They could use ribbons to represent the number of patients, without identifying them by name. Everybody uses ribbons nowadays as a show of support for whatever their cause might be. 

Specializes in Psych (25 years), Medical (15 years).

Beautiful idea, No Stars!

BTW: I love seeing you on the Yellow Side. You are truly a legend in my mind.

Oh wow. That is a big fat hella no. And the medical records person needs to be reported. I had a coworker that thought it was OK to delve into family members MR’s. This was a BIG hairy deal. She was threatened with prosecution, fines and possible jail time or she could resign. She of course, chose resignation. 

On 3/2/2022 at 1:01 AM, PoodleBreath said:

It doesn't sound like any of them are firing on a full set of pistons. If this is the end result of their investigation- if you could call it that- can we know if any of the information they say they have is based in reality at all? Or did they run from point A to point 47 and decide to plow forward with this ridiculous and offensive plan? They sound like a bunch of knuckleheads. There is such a thing as honoring the dead. We can't speak to what they would want so if they want to go forward they need to leave these patients out of it. Not to mention their families - who I'm assuming are not a part of this and would be devastated to have this kind of thing, whatever it is, be drawn out in public. At this point, since you are now a part of this conversation you have no choice but to report it. ?

Poodlebreath. I love your name. Best smile of the day. ?

Specializes in Med-Surg, Developmental Disorders.

Oh for Christ sake. Why don't they just use hospital armbands with PHI concealed with a sharpie?

This could also save them from a potentially embarrassing situation in which someone happens to know John P. Taylor-Smythe (DOB 5/2/1957) and knows for a fact that Mr. Taylor-Smythe (God rest his soul) did not die from the hospital's negligence but from his own decision to have an open bar and alcoholic fire-dancers at his grandchild's gender-reveal party. This would, of course, lead the person to assume that your friend's DIL's are protesting the concept of gender reveal parties or the concept of gender or the concept of parties or the concept of grandchildren, or even the very concept of fire dancers.

Or, if they're going to use personal information, they should use personal information that would tug at the heartstrings- for example, an emotional testimonial from Mr. Taylor-Smythe's friend about how all those young whipper-snapper nurses confused "Taylor-Smythe" with "Taylor Swift" and acted disappointed that they weren't caring for a famous popstar as the lyrics to a heart-wrenching song Mr. Taylor-Smythe wrote to express his improperly-treated pain play in the background. 

They're really going about this wrong. 

Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).

According to the HIPAA compliancy group a person's PHI is protected for 50 years after their death. Some exclusions apply but none of those exclusions would permit the publication of patient's armbands for any reason or to be used as proof of wrongdoing by a hospital system. 

More importantly hospitals as covered entities are responsible for protecting PHI and preventing its misuse. Most institutions shred or otherwise destroy items like armbands once the patient is discharged from the hospital. If these armbands were put in with regular paper waste and put in the trash then the hos[ital is not protecting the information. Trash that is at the curb (Off private property) is fair game to anyone who finds it. Example: A newspaper reporter who finds hospital records in the municipal trash may take them and use them however they wish. If however a hospital employee takes the records from a shredder bin still on hospital property and uses them that person is in violation of HIPAA and state and federal penalties apply.

Not sure what wrongdoing these folks are trying to prove as the name band would not list cause or manner of death but they are treading on thin ice.

Does HIPAA apply after death? Compliancy Group. (2020, November 16). Retrieved March 10, 2022, from https://compliancy-group.com/does-HIPAA-apply-after-death/

Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.

Over 40 years, how many hospital ID bands have I had to cut off the wrists of my private duty patients when they come home from the hospital? ! I also have never had any of my own personal pt. ID bands removed and shredded when I was about to be discharged. I don't think this is a widespread act, even w/ HIPAA rules. On the other hand (wrist?), maybe it is, now.

Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
9 hours ago, No Stars In My Eyes said:

Over 40 years, how many hospital ID bands have I had to cut off the wrists of my private duty patients when they come home from the hospital? ! I also have never had any of my own personal pt. ID bands removed and shredded when I was about to be discharged. I don't think this is a widespread act, even w/ HIPAA rules. On the other hand (wrist?), maybe it is, now.

We do cut the arm bands off our patients when they leave the psych hospital. 

Specializes in Psych (25 years), Medical (15 years).
On 3/1/2022 at 10:25 AM, Davey Do said:

After my statement about contacting the proper authorities, my presence in the social gathering ended rather abruptly.

In other words, I woke up.

Happy April Fool's Day!

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