A new FOR profit ASN program in Jacksonville

elkpark · Jun 27, 2010

FL just passed new legislation within the last couple years to relax the standards/regulations for nursing programs which makes it easier/cheaper for proprietary schools to start nursing programs in FL, so it's not surprising that more of them are opening programs.

FLmomof5 · Jun 28, 2010

But the Obama Administration is going to take a bite out of those schools. They will have to prove a certain graduation rate or they don't get to use federal student loans to pay for the tuition! I see many of them closing shortly thereafter.

misswhitney · Jun 28, 2010

But the Obama Administration is going to take a bite out of those schools. They will have to prove a certain graduation rate or they don't get to use federal student loans to pay for the tuition! I see many of them closing shortly thereafter.

We are so overly saturated with nursing students it is crazy. I sometimes get students, and even as a new nurse, I can tell what school they are from and how well they are going to be a nurse, just based on how they act. Now every school has its lazy students, but its usually the profit ones that tell me they are my student for the day and then they are never seen again. Though I did have some great Keiser (I believe that is where they were from) students this past weekend, who were so eager to learn and help.

llg, PhD, RN · Jun 28, 2010

Just what the world does NOT need.

I've heard (from someone at the state board of my state, I think) that some of the same people are behind some of these schools throughout the country. They open a school and take advantage of loopholes in the law that allow them to open up and accept a couple of classes. Then, they keep "processing" students through their lousy programs until the state closes them down -- which may take a couple of years due to the fact that most state boards have very little actual authority and very few resources to conduct the kind of investigation needed to close down crappy programs. When they finally get closed down, they simply move on and open another school under a different name -- having made a couple million dollars.

For example, they can buy and take over a small school that is struggling financially. That school already has all the approvals lined up to run a program. Or thay can buy a reputable LPN program and use that school's good reputation to expand into an RN program. etc. They make their money quickly ... don't break any laws ...stay open for as long as they can get away with it ... then move on and do it again somewhere else.

llg, PhD, RN · Jun 28, 2010

But the Obama Administration is going to take a bite out of those schools. They will have to prove a certain graduation rate or they don't get to use federal student loans to pay for the tuition! I see many of them closing shortly thereafter.

Yes. I've been reading those stories about the administration trying to curb those types of programs. But it's going to be hard for them to get the needed regulations in place and enforced and/or laws through Congress. These schools are big business and hire big lawyers and lobbyists.

For those of you who haven't figured it out yet ... a lot of the income these businesses make comes from the federal education budget in the forms of student loans. The students take out the loans to pay the sky-high tuition. They can also use the loans for books, uniforms, etc. that they purchase from the school. The student then flunks out of school and/or can't get/keep a decent job once they graduate because the quality of their education was so bad. But the school doesn't care: it got its money up front. If the student defaults on the loan ... well, then, us tax payers foot the bill. Either way, the school gets its money and the public pays for the lousy education that some poor soul who didn't know any better got lured into.

elkpark · Jun 29, 2010

For those of you who haven't figured it out yet ... a lot of the income these businesses make comes from the federal education budget in the forms of student loans. The students take out the loans to pay the sky-high tuition. They can also use the loans for books, uniforms, etc. that they purchase from the school. The student then flunks out of school and/or can't get/keep a decent job once they graduate because the quality of their education was so bad. But the school doesn't care: it got its money up front. If the student defaults on the loan ... well, then, us tax payers foot the bill. Either way, the school gets its money and the public pays for the lousy education that some poor soul who didn't know any better got lured into.

Yes, the newspaper in the nearest big city to me did an investigative series a few years ago on the local campus of one of the national proprietary "chain" schools -- the campus was focused on high-tech "career" training, not nursing. The articles made it v. clear that the entire "school" was little more than a scam to obtain Federal student loan money -- they would admit students who clearly could not be expected, by any reasonable person, to be able to do college-level academic work, and help them apply for thousands of dollars in student loans for the expensive tuition and other expenses. Then, when many of the students (predictably) flunked out, they just pocketed the money and the students were left on the hook for many thousands of dollars in loans they would have to repay. The people who did complete the various programs found that employers in the area considered the school a joke and the certificates and degrees not worth the paper they were printed on, and they were no more employable than they had been before they paid for the "education." It was really sad to read the details about all of this.

Shortly after the articles ran in the paper, the school simply closed down and left the area (however, that particular chain of schools has now started offering nursing programs in some locations).

KTeacher2Nursing · Jul 26, 2010

Geez! Add Virginia College to the list. I saw their advertisement spot over the weekend. Its just not right that these "schools" are allowed to take advantage of unsuspecting people.

MangoGirl · Aug 8, 2010

We have SRJCC, FSCJ, UNF, JU, Keiser, Concorde, Sanford-Brown, Chamberlin, and now CMI!

Add Nova University, Virginia College, University of Phoenix and Webster University to that list.

frogger32091 · Aug 8, 2010

And you guys did not like when I generalized. I cannot speak for every school listed, and I have seen some crack pots in Jacksonville when it came to schools, but I happen to attend Virginia College and I find that it is an excellent school. Yes they may be slightly more expensive than say what former FCCJ is but unlike some of the traditional college, Virginia (again, I cannot speak for the other schools) actually wants their nurses to succeed. And no it is not a line I was fed, I have seen it first hand. The PD (program director) is a nurse that has been in the field for over 35 years and finally retired to take the job at VC. I have checked their accreditation and they hold the same ones for their nursing program that former FCCJ holds for theirs.

The laziness of a nurse is not from the school, it is from the person. An uneducated nurse could be either the school or the person. However, generalizing and saying that all career colleges (or for profit colleges) are bad because a few people are not learning what they should from them, is as wrong as me saying that all nurses are mean. My father is a nurse and has been since Vietnam. He is all the time getting students from UNF, UF, and former FCCJ that do not know how (or do not want to) do their jobs. It is higher education. There comes a point where you have to teach yourself and be responsible for what you learn. I am a very hard worker, and should I ever get the chance to meet any of you in the hospital setting, I can tell you that I will be johnny on the spot with the help. I know that I will not come in there knowing everything, but if I can be shown how to do something, then I am willing to do it. No matter how small. I picked Virgina because I do not have two years to wait for former FCCJ to decide to let me into their nursing program because they have such a long wait list. I have a friend that did all of her pre-reqs there and got a 4.0 in all of her classes and has been waiting over a year to even be allowed to take the TEAS test to see if she can be added to the waiting list. I am sorry that you all have had some bad experiences with for-profit student nurses, but if you are going to bad mouth a school, then you should at least make sure that you know something about the school other than how much their tuition is for the program. And for the record, my tuition is higher than the school that the OP posted about, but I do not have to pay for anything else, everything is included, so for me this just works out better. Plus I like going to school with other people my age instead of going to school with a bunch of fresh out of high school students who do not have a family that they have to work their school around.

I am not trying to be controversial, nor do I mean any disrespect to anyone. I am not even trying to start a debate about which schools are better. I am simply stating that it is not fair to classify a school as bad just because others like it are bad. If you assume that all for profit schools are bad then what happens to those students that come into the hospitals where you work? If they get assigned to you and you already have your mind made up that they are not going to know anything because of the school they attend, how is that fair to them? I know I would be highly disappointed if I did not learn anything in clinicals because my assigned nurse assumed that I knew nothing and refused to let me do anything just because I attend VC. I want to learn. I want to work, and I cannot wait until I get to clinical.

KTeacher2Nursing · Aug 8, 2010

I am the original poster, and in NO way did I specifically "bash" any school. I merely noted that these for-profit career college schools are popping up all over Jacksonville in a time when its hard to find a RN/LPN jobs. If spending over $30k to become a nurse is your choice then you are the one that has to live with it. However, make real sure that you will be satisfied as an ASN nurse from these schools since for-profit career colleges are not recognized to be able to transfer to gain a BSN and above. If you don't believe, call UNF or even JU and see if your ASN from a career college will transfer and it won't. (I have personally called several nursing programs in the state of Florida and was given the same answer.)

Good and bad nurses come from every program and in the end it is what you make of it to put you on the path to a great career.

I suggest looking at the Concord or Sanford Brown thread, a poster did an EXCELLENT job of stating the pros and cons of "regular" versus "career" colleges. She makes a note of stating that if you are happy with an ASN and don't want to go the advanced routes like an ARNP or CRNA then yea, spend the money and keep it moving. But if you do want to go those routes, all you can do is wait your turn to get into a program that will gear you towards your professional goals.

However, more than that "career" colleges have the reputation of targeting unsuspecting people. it's been well researched and documented about the practices that these schools have. But in the end it is what it is and research and the Florida Board of NUrsing has the last say.

frogger32091 · Aug 8, 2010

I checked the Florida Board of Nursing website and Virgina College is listed as is Keiser University. (which is different than Keiser Career College) those are the only two in Jacksonville listed besides the actual already known universities and community colleges. Of course I did not like Keiser because they want you to complete an entire class in one month. I like having three classes at a time and having the normal semester to complete them in personally.