Why are preceptors not provided in MSN programs?

Nursing Students NP Students

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I don't mean to come off complaining. I'm genuinely prepared to search for my own clinical sites as I have already applied to three schools. But I just wondered, in my RN program, I never had to worry about it. Why is it the norm for RN education to have clinical sites provided, but not MSN?

Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
Wrong assumption that I'm in "NP Power" mode. You make so many assumptions about so much...you should stop. Is it possible I know doctors who don't like NPs? Why certainly that is possible...and I do know MDs who don't like NPs. They are out there and you are lucky you haven't run into them.

I was told by the NP that she has to take the med students and she tries to get NP students in when she can. It is an NP run...not NP owned practice...so the MDs make the decisions and have told them med students are the priority.

OK, your response just made me realize this is not a conversation worthy to pursue. Bye bye.

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Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.

This thread has veered off topic so much that we are now debating and rationalizing why NP's refuse to precept. Again, just goes to show why schools should be doing the legwork, just my opinion FWIW.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
OK, your response just made me realize this is not a conversation worthy to pursue. Bye bye.

Oh somebody points our your assumptions are wrong and now we run away? You can sling mud but can't take it when somebody points out your slinging was wrong? You know...you aren't always right?

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Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
Oh somebody points our your assumptions are wrong and now we run away? You can sling mud but can't take it when somebody points out your slinging was wrong? You know...you aren't always right?

Exactly how did I sling mud?

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Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
Exactly how did I sling mud?

Well you state what I must be thinking. I state you are wrong and why and you say you are talking anymore. What I'm not allowed to know doctors who are against NP practice? They exist. I know them. I know others who know them. They are an issue. But that's okay...you must live where it isn't an issue and that is wonderful. Maybe someday all doctors will feel the way the doctors you know feel...because that's how we (actually you) judge how doctors are anyway.

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Specializes in Mental Health.

Irish, you drink too much coffee today? Relax

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Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
Well you state what I must be thinking. I state you are wrong and why and you say you are talking anymore. What I'm not allowed to know doctors who are against NP practice? They exist. I know them. I know others who know them. They are an issue. But that's okay...you must live where it isn't an issue and that is wonderful. Maybe someday all doctors will feel the way the doctors you know feel...because that's how we (actually you) judge how doctors are anyway.

Then you must have assumed I have been living under a rock! I have been an NP for 10 years and an RN for over 10 years before that. I know there are MD's that do not like working with NP's. I have seen and met them in my career. The thing is, why force your politics on them? These are the same ones who may never change their views.

Physicians who work alongside NP's have already moved beyond the MD vs NP battle. These are the same ones that would allow NP's to precept NP students. These are the ones where you will likely get a positive response in requesting clinical placement.

Securing clinical placements can have a political agenda to it. This is why universities with established NP programs who are committed to securing student placements are successful at getting them. I went to a school that secured our clinical rotations. You won't believe how much interaction and hard work those nursing faculty did with physician practices and NP alumni behind the scenes. The same is true with the university my medical center is affiliated with.

When I said you are on "NP Power" mode, it was harking back to my NP student days of anguish over the injustice of not allowing NP's practice to their full potential. At this point in my career, the battle is still going on...in the world of political lobbying and in the halls of legislators whose priority is winning a re-election. In practice, I've only worked with supportive MD's, the ones who weren't are still there, they're just practicing NP-less.

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Omg peeps, shut up.

This thread is about why MSN programs do not provide preceptors. I think we can all agree it's a stupid, money hungry policy that needs to change. My thought is this:

It's sort of like the RN market used to be - people argued about ADN vs BSN with ADN proponents saying it didn't matter because they received job offers upon graduation. Flash forward a few years, and suddenly most hospitals have so many RN applicants they can mandate BSNs for all new hires. The ADN graduate are having a tough time finding jobs, and have to go back to school for the BSN. I think the NP market is the same. Right now, all the Walden and Kaplan graduates are getting jobs because the market still has a need for NPs. As these diploma mills keep cranking them out, the market will become saturated and job competition will grow. It's at that point when the for-profit graduates who had to find their own preceptors realize that reputation DOES matter. The Columbia, Duke, UCSF, etc graduates will be getting the jobs and the Walden people will serve no purpose except to dilute the market and lower the negotiating power of everyone else. Eventually, the skill gap between those that had their preceptors monitored and standardized and those that didn't will widen, and the programs graduating poorly trained NPs will stop getting job offers for their students. Only a matter of time folks.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
Oh somebody points our your assumptions are wrong and now we run away? You can sling mud but can't take it when somebody points out your slinging was wrong? You know...you aren't always right?

Let's not call the kettle black here.

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Specializes in Emergency.

Can we get back to the subject please?

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Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
Then you must have assumed I have been living under a rock! I have been an NP for 10 years and an RN for over 10 years before that. I know there are MD's that do not like working with NP's. I have seen and met them in my career. The thing is why force your politics on them? These are the same ones who may never change their views. Physicians who work alongside NP's have already moved beyond the MD vs NP battle. These are the same ones that would allow NP's to precept NP students. These are the ones where you will likely get a positive response in requesting clinical placement. Securing clinical placements can have a political agenda to it. This is why universities with established NP programs who are committed to securing student placements are successful at getting them. I went to a school that secured our clinical rotations. You won't believe how much interaction and hard work those nursing faculty did with physician practices and NP alumni behind the scenes. The same is true with the university my medical center is affiliated with. When I said you are on "NP Power" mode, it was harking back to my NP student days of anguish over the injustice of not allowing NP's practice to their full potential. At this point in my career, the battle is still going on...in the world of political lobbying and in the halls of legislators whose priority is winning a re-election. In practice, I've only worked with supportive MD's, the ones who weren't are still there, they're just practicing NP-less.[/quote']

I assumed nothing about you.

I also won't force my politics onto an MD. Never said I would. I will so what is in my best interest and what I can live with. It's really simple. It has how I've lived my life for many years...no desire to change.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
Irish you drink too much coffee today? Relax[/quote']

And what exact does this mean? Because I have an opinion and won't back down to somebody who believes their opinion is fact?

So instead of stupid comments...why not spend more time thinking about what you are reading.

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