VENT: ADN and BSN
- 4Jul 24, '08 by Sweet_CheekssWell i just really needed to get something off my chest. I recently graduated from an ADN program in June and in July passed my boards. its a great accomplishment for me and its honestly still so surreal. So the next thing to do would be to find a job. I live in nyc and its been horrible out here. All you hear is sorry we accept only BSN grads and honestly its really discouraging. I understand BSN grads take more classes than we do but please tell me what does that really mean. Do we not all take the same boards? Or does the computer know who did their ADN and who did their BSN? its kind of a shame because there are so many bright new grads out there that want to make a difference in this world but yet they are rejected. Ok all my frustration started when My friends and I were taking our Kaplan review course. The whole class was full of BSN grads and we were the only ADN grads in there. Ok so we were the outcasts no problem in that we dealt with it. So the instructor would take us through 75 questions each day and honestly not many of the BSN grads knew much. I mean im not saying all BSN grads are like that it but they went to such a great school. The questions we heard coming out of their mouths was dreadful. For example a girl asked Why do you use carbon dioxide during a laparoscopic procedure And the list goes on. Ok i know your supposed to learn these things in nursing school and honestly they are basic things. So explain to me shouldnt a BSN grad know more than an ADN grad? I just think its kind of unfair for us to be rejected due to our degree. I apologize if my post offended anyone but i just needed to get this out there and make people realize something .Ok fine they got a higher degree than us but that doesnt make them a better nurse than us. There is such a shortage and so many people that need to be taken care of that employers are nit picking about that. Im proud of my degree and a hospital that wouldnt accept me because of it isnt for me. All i can say is their loss.
Thanks for listening and sorry if i offended anyone. feel free to leave any comments
- 24Jul 24, '08 by JolieI think you will find that starting an ADN vs BSN debate is counterproductive. As you accurately stated, we all pass the same boards and earn the same license. I suggest you not generalize about the quality of BSN education based on a few questions posed by students in your review class, just as you would not appreciate anyone bashing ADN grads.
That said, I am finding a common problem among posters on various threads regarding educational preparation. Many posters have lamented the difficulty in finding jobs as ADN grads in some areas of the country. Another poster stated the difficulty in finding a job as an Excelsior grad even in a state that accepts Excelsior degrees.
I suggest that potential nursing students research the job market in the area they would like to work before enrolling in school. There are many cities with a glut of RN grads looking for jobs (Philadelphia, Boston, NYC, for example). Employers there can set any standards they like about the grads they employ, since there are so many from which to choose, from so many local schools. I don't mean to imply that BSN grads are superior to any other, simply that there are fewer of them, so it narrows the selection process quickly for the nurse recruiter, and looks good to JCAHO surveyors and Magnet status reviewers to advertise staff members with Bachelor's-level educational preparation.
In less populated areas with fewer nursing schools, nurse recruiters welcome inquiries from grads of all programs. You may find that you need to be flexible in location in order to find your first nursing job.
Students would be well-served to understand their employment prospects before choosing a nursing education program, so that they can choose a program best suited to meeting their employment goals.
- 1Jul 24, '08 by NurseLayI'm an ADN grad (May 08 grad), however I plan on pursuing my BSN starting in the Fall. The school that I graduated from split the program for some odd reason. I have been told that the BSN grads have more knowledge as far as management and stuff like that, not necessarily the skills part.
Many hospitals are saying BSN preferred on applications, however, you have to sell yourself. I will be working on PICU at a magnet facility and I have been offered positions at 3 different magnet hospitals so I was actually able to choose where I wanted to be and one hospital allowed me to choose the unit I wanted. I expressed during each interview that I do have plans to further my education and that is what they like to hear.
However, the hospital where I will be working, have expressed that they actually want me to wait a year before continuing my education and that is something that I am actually struggling with because I've only been in school three years and I have no desire to wait. Anyway, I started rambling.
Bottom line, recruiters and managers want to hear that you plan on continuing your education and that you just want more. You just have to sell yourself and know your worth.
Good luck to you and I'm sure you'll find something, you may not get exactly what you want.
- 5Jul 24, '08 by valkyriathis is a question that many nurses have been wondering and lost in a quandry over for some time. whether you have a diploma, an associate, a bachelors, a masters or a phd, you are still a nurse! diploma and associate degree programs seem to be more technically oriented, skills and abilities. when i graduated with my bsn i definitely felt behind my counterparts who had diplomas and associates. they had been on the floors and in the trenches more than i. my professors told me that it would take 6-8 months to reach the level of proficiency that those folks had. then we would be even. not necessarily. i was drilled with thinking deeper into the problem that the patient has. i would go farther than i had to in answering a question on an exam or on the boards even, than necessary. how could i, keep it simple, if i was taught to think complexly? i come from a family of doctors and worked with many very closely while in school and growing up. that gave me another problem. medicine sees the flu, for instance, one way and nursing see the same disease process, a different way: ineffective airway clearance secondary to copious secretions and ineffective cough as evidenced by green sputum expectorated, declilning saturation levels, elevated temperature (alteration in temperature), and weakness (activity intolerance/altered mental status). so, the more school you have, the better prepared you are to "think" more critically or in more dimensions. but, you can also say, the more education you have, the more confused you are! states cannot agree to make one level of education as the entry level requirement for the profession. no state wants to be the one to say, ok, we want all of our nurses to be bachelor prepared, and that is what is going to be required as the minimum to be employed as a nurse in this state. so, anywhere you see a nurse, you can be sure that nurse has at least a bachelors and, we are going to enhance our pay scale to reflect our desire, as an organization, to have nurses strive for that level of qualification. no state, that i know of, has put their money where their mouth is. so we all go around confused and asking, what is the difference and why would i bother. i know why i wanted my bsn and yes, it has made a difference to me but to my employer (s), i am not sure. and i know they would never tell me the truth!
- 0Jul 24, '08 by valkyriajolie has the right idea though, look around and ask other nurses around where you want to work, ask nurses of different ages and different races and different ethnic origins, (that too makes a difference in some places and with some organizations),and nurses of different years of experience, ask them what they think and if they would change something if they could do it again. that alone may be a learning experience for the both of you. ask recruiters in large organizations and small around where you want to work, what their feelings on the issue and what does the market there look like. do not go by advertisements and the internet, that is only one window with one view. :heartbeat
- 0Jul 24, '08 by RNDreamerQuote from JolieI think you will find that starting an ADN vs BSN debate is counterproductive. As you accurately stated, we all pass the same boards and earn the same license. I suggest you not generalize about the quality of BSN education based on a few questions posed by students in your review class, just as you would not appreciate anyone bashing ADN grads.
I agree. I cannot stand reading posts about how BSN students know less than ADN students, have less clinical time, blah, blah, blah.
I am so sorry that you are having a hard time finding a job. I noticed that my top choice hospitals are 'BSN preferred' and I am glad I chose to go this route. However, I didn't think that ADNs would have a hard time finding any jobs. Have you tried the HHC hospitals? Here is a link to the HHC facilties, as well as a link to NYC hospitals. Good luck!
- 1Jul 28, '08 by june2009Where I'm at (near Pittsburgh) it makes no difference if you have your ADN/diploma/ or BSN. I think you make a little more per hour as a BSN. A few of the major hospitals (West Penn, Shadyside, and I think St. Margarets) have their own diploma programs so that would be kind of stupid if they would only hire BSN nurses. I'm sorry to hear that some ADN nurses are having a haed time finding a job.
- 2Jul 30, '08 by RNsRWeI agree with Jolie. You can be frustrated that you are encountering a difficult time in finding employment with an ADN, but you have to realize that you could have eliminated some or all of that frustration simply by researching the NYC job market prior to choosing a nursing school.
You would have found that BSN grads are preferred in your city.
Now, that said, that does not mean that ADN grads will not find jobs; you might just have a little harder time at first, especially fresh out of school. There's plenty of BSN grads there ready to start on Monday, just like you. You might not start with your first choice hospital; perhaps there's another area you can move toward, to gain experience. And once you have a year, two, three under your belt, no one is going to care where you went to school, only where you WORKED!
So, keep looking, keep interviewing, and make great impressions on those with whom you interview. "BSN preferred" does not mean "BSN gets it" if YOU are the better fit for the job for other reasons. Emphasize what YOU bring to the table in every interview.
For what it's worth, this is really a regional thing: there are MANY places on the map where an RN is worth the same regardless of what school prepared you to take the NCLEX. In my area, a BSN gets paid either a quarter or fifty cents an hour more; therefore nobody who gets a BSN does so for that reason. They aren't preferred in the hiring process either; again, it's what an individual brings to the table. I've absolutely seen ADN grads take jobs over BSN applicants. It's not black and white.
Hang in there. Put your best face forward, and be open to options. Having an RN license is of value, period.Last edit by RNsRWe on Jul 30, '08