SICK of BSN Pedestal

[DUDERNGUY]

Get off the Pedestal with the whole BSN vs ADN thing. A fact this is overlooked is that ADN does the same job as BSN and passes the NCLEX. Everyone then cried ADN is uneducated blah blah. WHY dont we look at the 4 year universities instead? Why doesnt the BSN itself advance? Because taking an extra gym glass doesnt deserve it. Look at all the worthless pre reqs that you BSN's are taking over the ADN. It isnt making you a better nurse its all about the money the school systems are a business. We need to change the education system. SWAP out that spanish you are going to forget the second after the test and take some critical thinking. Be gone with that Open elective to take baking class and replace it with PSYCH. The problem is the ADN is a efficient degree with time/pre-reqs and the BSN is created to give the "big man" money. Sorry if you wasted 100k in debt.

why are hospitals going magnet? because the universities are lobbiest to the hospitals. Universites need there money and they dont like ADNs getting the jobs BSNs are getting for a fraction of the cost. Universities have paid, persuaded, and convinced hospitals to go magnet and it is not because 4 year nurses are better.

IF universities ever decide to stop the worthless pre reqs and uni requirements then maybe one day a BSN nurse would have a true advantage.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

I still maintain that what this country really needs is to shift the focus of post-secondary education away from the "well rounded" university model and more toward the focused, vocational model.

Kids should be geared toward a certain profession the first year in high school, and the last year or two of HS should cosist mainly of vocational, hands on education. We need kore plumbers, electricians, engineers, computer technologists. We need more unemployed liberal arts grads like we need a hole in the head.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

But we also need more people with more education. Education is NEVER a waste and we have waaay too many unenlightened who don't understand the forces of society acting on them (like people who go into nursing because you'll always have a job). Vocational tech is just vocational tech. It's fine for people who don't want, or can't, go to college. But life if very complicated today and if people want to stay one step ahead, you've got to read and understand the issues - not easy when most news is skewed towards infotainment.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

Hmmm, well, people who watch sunny boo-boo (or whatever it is) and who think Hard Copy or their Yahoo! Home page are adequate news sources *probably* aren't the type who would benefit from higher education in the first place.

The bulk of the population is uncultured and uninformed. It's always been that way and it always will be.

And you don't necessarily need a college education to be "enlightened". I have no post secondary education beyond practical nursing, but I consider myself to be fairly well read and enlightened. I listen to NPR. I watch PBS. I have a subscription to a couple literary journals and have the sunday NewYork Times delivered. Much of what one would describe as cultured or enlightened is simply lifestyle choices. One *chooses* whether or not to be informed.

There's a need for higher education, of course. But for the vast, vast majority education is simply the means to an end. For most people, any higher education that doesn't directly result in gainful employment is, indeed, "wasted". It's time to stop being naive about this.

[Anoetos, BSN, RN]

Im a ADN nurse who just had to go on a home visit to fix a mess that a BSN nurse made. So much for the better care theory. Just saying.

Because your experience with one nurse's incompetence necessarily implies a deficit on the part of a whole group.?

When we do this sort of thing with skin color or religion it's called bigotry.

[FurBabyMom, MSN, RN]

I have a BSN. It was the best choice for me in terms of college. I believe everyone should do what is best for them considering cost, time commitment and job prospects post-graduation. I'm the first person in my mom's family to have a 4 year degree (only the second college grad, my brother will be the 3rd in a year :) ). If I had to make the choice to do it all over again, I would, perhaps exactly the same way I did it. The only thing I would do differently would be I would have kept my Spanish minor (it would have been a huge PITA to complete but I should have done it).

I had a "liberal arts" education at my university, but the curriculum I had to take was 85% nursing (clinical nursing classes, nursing support classes (nutrition, pharm, research, elective), chemistry, biochem, psychology, sociology, anatomy and physiology, pathophysiology, child development, microbiology, etc) or directly related to nursing and the other 15% was other stuff and useful. I had to sit through a western civilization classes, other miscellaneous history classes, philosophy and religion classes (my world religions class has helped me so much as an RN - I have an ability to grasp some basic knowledge about many religions). I had to take a series of writing/lit and comp classes in college. There is nothing wrong with being a person who can read, write and communicate well. My education is well-rounded, and because I have a bachelors degree I can do almost anything with very few additional pre-reqs when I choose to go to grad school. I may not choose a "nursing" plan of study for grad school.

The way it was, in the state I went to nursing school, the programs with the most clinical hours were all BSN programs. I point this out only because so many people say "ADN programs give a better clinical preparation." My program was second in the state for highest number of clinical hours by undergraduate nursing students on average. Our clinical groups never had more than 6 students in a group, which meant we got a lot of 1:1 time with our clinical instructor for skills and personal growth. I had coworkers from when I was a PCA/CNA at a hospital during nursing school who got WAY less experience and way less clinical time in ADN programs. But, that's how it was in the area I went to college, and I know the same cannot be said everywhere. The job market where I went to school leaned heavily in favor of BSN new grads if they were hiring new grads. I wasn't gonna waste my time in an ADN program only to not be able to get a job. Again, this isn't the situation everywhere, just where I lived. The program I went to has one of the best rates (in that area) of their new grad RNs securing meaningful employment or being accepted to grad school.

I think it's hard to judge all BSN programs as 'A', and all ADN programs as 'B' (insert whatever you'd use to describe them in place of A and B). There are some really good BSN programs and some really good ADN programs. There are also some really bad BSN and ADN programs. There are good and bad LPN/LVN programs (the list could go on similarly for eternity throughout all of healthcare's professions).

A commenter posted about being an ADN that had to go in and clean up a mess left by a BSN. TRUST me, that road goes BOTH WAYS. As a new grad BSN RN on a very busy step down acuity unit, I had to clean up after an "experienced" ADN RN on many occasions. I cleaned up after experienced LPNs many times. I've cleaned up after experienced BSNs too. I'm positive I didn't do everything perfectly because I'm human too. We're (hopefully) constantly changing and learning.

[kalevra, BSN, RN]

BSN/MSN/PHD make the rules simple as that.

Evidence based papers written by these guys guide the course of the nursing profession. They do the research, they end up publishing the research, and their papers end up being used to justify changes in policy. Which means they make the rules.

Specifically those in academia make the rules. I do not know of any full time BSN or MSN working bedside and overtime that have the spare time to go perform market analysis. The ones researching are usually those in academia. Now it would not be in their best interest if their papers show anything contrary to the held belief that having only an ADN makes you inferior to a BSN.

No matter how much you may bash BSNs or higher degrees, they are the ones writing the papers that the big wigs read.

Let us unite and set one standard for entry.

My own two cents.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

Nursing is so much more than a vocational profession; viewing it as such is a disservice to nurses everywhere, regardless of their education, experience, or degree.

[Anoetos, BSN, RN]

As long as the perception is that all nurses do is wipe butts, pass meds, carry out orders and chart, it's not likely to change.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

Hmmm, well, people who watch sunny boo-boo (or whatever it is) and who think Hard Copy or their Yahoo! Home page are adequate news sources *probably* aren't the type who would benefit from higher education in the first place.

The bulk of the population is uncultured and uninformed. It's always been that way and it always will be.

And you don't necessarily need a college education to be "enlightened". I have no post secondary education beyond practical nursing, but I consider myself to be fairly well read and enlightened. I listen to NPR. I watch PBS. I have a subscription to a couple literary journals and have the sunday NewYork Times delivered. Much of what one would describe as cultured or enlightened is simply lifestyle choices. One *chooses* whether or not to be informed.

There's a need for higher education, of course. But for the vast, vast majority education is simply the means to an end. For most people, any higher education that doesn't directly result in gainful employment is, indeed, "wasted". It's time to stop being naive about this.

Brandon:

I'm my mid 60's and remember when "average" was competent. A high school graduate in the business program was ready to go to work as a gainful employee. No more. We've become such a nation of dummies that well more than 50% of the population is below average.:) I would never judge "enlightment" by a person's education or job. Any educational status one achieves is just a beginning. After that, your an auto-didact or you're not. I'm only saything if the employer starts to demand a BSN, one had better get ready and that all the anti-education postings on AN don't speak well for nursing.

Also, I hate the New York Times and I'm a registered Democrat! :):):)

[FaithGurl93]

I'd rather go for ADN. I can deal with another two years opposed to 4. That's just me lol

[BostonFNP, APRN]

I'd rather go for ADN. I can deal with another two years opposed to 4. That's just me lol

Good for you or good for the patient?

[FaithGurl93]

Good for you or good for the patient?

Both. Everybody has their limit. I'M SPEAKING FOR MYSELF. If I were to try and go for BSN I'd come out frustrated angry nurse which would mess up the care I would have to give to the patients. SPEAKING FOR MYSELF. And from reading the post it seems that BSN is for those who intend to have more of a leadership role. I'm fine with the bedside care. I just love to help people. I don't believe that I have to go four years to be a good nurse.