Hospitals only hiring BSN's?

PMFB-RN, RN · Jun 10, 2012

Two candidates, everything else being equal, why would they hire an ADN over a BSN?

*** One of the hospitals were I work as an instructor in the Ciritcal Care Nurse Residency program does not hire new grad BSNs for those going into ths SICU. ADNs only. The residency is a 7 month very good program that turns new grads into competent entry level ICU nurses. There is a required 2 year contract to get into the residency program. In the past there was no discrimination based on degree. We learned something. We had many very sucessful grads who went on the be good critical care nurses. What we learned was that we could not predict a residents sucsess based on weather they came to the program with an ADN or a BSN. Most did fine reguardless of degree. Some washed out, ADNs & BSNs.

However we get a much, much better return on the very considerable investment with the ADN residents. A large number, in fact most of our BSN grads left for CRNA school without completing the 2 year contract. The hospital responded by ever increasing the required payback for those not completing their 2 year contract. It got up to $15K non-prorated and this didn't prove to be be any inducement when compaired to the higher compensation of CRNAs. The last class of mixed grads was 7 BSN grads and 2 ADNs. Not one of the 7 BSN grads finished the 2 year contract. One had a baby and became a stay at home mom, the other 6 went to CRNA school.

Up to this point 100% of the ADNs who graduated from the program have completed their 2 year contract. Plenty of them have gone on the CRNA school as well, but they did it after completing their two year contract.

sherri12 · Jun 10, 2012

*** I was going by what it cost at a state university in my state. I know lots of nurses who went to private schools and paid $90K+

I go to a University in New England and I've never heard of a cost that high. For those who want to go to a private school and pay $90K... I wonder if their education was worth the extra $65k.

Dartmouth-Hitchcock hospital (near Dartmouth College), along with 4 other hospitals in that area, are no longer hiring ADN's. And I'm sure this trend will continue.

PMFB-RN, RN · Jun 11, 2012

I go to a University in New England and I've never heard of a cost that high. For those who want to go to a private school and pay $90K... I wonder if their education was worth the extra $65k.

*** Is the BSN worth the extra $120K? Figure two years at RN starting pay of (let's say) $60K/year that the ADN would have made in the two years since graduation while the BSN was still in school.

It's pretty easy to see the huge advantage the ADN has over the BSN. I wonder if there isn't some resentment cause of this advantage?

Consider two pretend RNs, John and Jane. Both decided in high school they wanted to be nurses. After graduation John attends the local technical college ADN program and graduates in two years for a total cost of $6,500. (In my state the ADN is desined to be completed in two years, no pre-reqs). John lands a job in a large teaching hospital SICU and enrolls in a RN to BSN program at his employers expence (like I did). Johns starts off making $60K/year (actualy considerably less than new grads make where I work), has decent health insurance, a 401K with employer matching 6% and after a year becomes vested in a pension plan. After two years John graduates from the RN to BSN program and now has two years of high qualiety ICU experience under his belt, has made $120K or so, has a nice start to his retirement plan and maybe earned CCRN. Now, four years after high school graduation John is an RN, BSN, CCRN with two solid years experience and can write his ticket.

Jane decided to go to her local state university for a BSN. She graduates after four years for a cost of $40,000 (4 years at $10K/year, pretty normal in this state). She has made no money and likely owes tens of thousands in student loans. She has no experience and is likely broke. She lands a job in the same SICU as John and finds herself being precepted by John. After four years Jane is RN, BSN and will be lucky to find a job as a new grad and has paid, or owes $40K plus interest.

Pretty easy to see the huge advantage the ADN can have. I wouldn't be suprised if this results in some resentment on Jane's part. I have heard newer nurses express this exact resentment, though is was pretty mild.

azure42 · Jun 11, 2012

In today's economy, if there are fifteen nurses lined up for the same position, the hospital is probably going to hire the BSN.

Why would the hospital want to foot the bill for John's ADN-BSN transition....when they could hire Jane and save their facility money?

Furthermore, if the facility that hired John IS willing to pay for his education (ADN-BSN), they would most likely be willing to pay for Jane's BSN-MSN.

The value placed on education is different for everyone, so I doubt that Jane would resent John in any way shape or form.

In Jane's case, she made a personal decision....and if there is more expense and time involved in achieving her goal...so what?

More power to them both for furthering their education and pursuing the academic degree that makes the most sense for them.

MunoRN, RN · Jun 11, 2012

$40-60K for a BSN??? I paid $24,000 for my entire 4 year BSN education at a University. My car cost more than that.

$24,000 is now the cost of each year of a BSN at the cheapest state school within 8 hours of me. Gone are the good ol' days.

MunoRN, RN · Jun 11, 2012

Two candidates, everything else being equal, why would they hire an ADN over a BSN?

Cheaper to train an ADN is the big reason.

There are also other reasons why hospitals chose to at least keep their doors open to ADNs; More than half of ADN grads are "second-career Nurses", which often means they have a mortgage, kids, etc. and aren't really in a position to up and move. While a 22 year old BSN grad is likely to work for a couple of years and then try someplace else. Hospitals don't really like to pay the $20,000 to train a BSN then have them leave, where with the ADN grad if you're the only hospital in town there's a decent chance they'll spend the rest of their career employed with you. Some hospitals also feel these "older" nurses with more "life experience" are more valuable.

MunoRN, RN · Jun 11, 2012

In today's economy, if there are fifteen nurses lined up for the same position, the hospital is probably going to hire the BSN.

Not where I work, if you've got a BSN they kick you out of line.

Why would the hospital want to foot the bill for John's ADN-BSN transition....when they could hire Jane and save their facility money?

Or just not require BSN at any point and not therefore not help pay for it.

PMFB-RN, RN · Jun 12, 2012

in today's economy, if there are fifteen nurses lined up for the same position, the hospital is probably going to hire the bsn.

why would the hospital want to foot the bill for john's adn-bsn transition....when they could hire jane and save their facility money?

*** yes you have a good point, in today's economy. unless they are applying to one of the large teaching hospitals were i work, in that case jane wouldn't be considered for a position in the sicu nurse residency program and john would. obviously the exception to the rule. however the bsn required hiring is relitivly new and in my state not one single hospital has bsn required listed in its job postings for staff rns. i have been assiting a new grad to find a job and have been looking at hospital job postings.

furthermore, if the facility that hired john is willing to pay for his education (adn-bsn), they would most likely be willing to pay for jane's bsn-msn.

*** maybe, maybe not. where i work rn to bsn has a much higher funding priority than msn programs. the hospital is already awash in rns who have msns.

the value placed on education is different for everyone, so i doubt that jane would resent john in any way shape or form.

*** i have heard some comments that made me wonder if in fact there wasn't some resentment.

in jane's case, she made a personal decision....and if there is more expense and time involved in achieving her goal...so what?

*** you missed my point. there was no critizem of jane's choice in my example. i was just pointing out the tremdous advantage an adn grads might have over a bsn grad.

skittlebum · Jun 12, 2012

I am a ADN graduate as of 5/21/2012 I got my first of choice position at Renown in Reno NV. I cannot speak to other areas but in our area it does not seem to matter if you have an ADN or BSN.

Mulan · Jun 12, 2012

All I see being hired are BSN (magnet hospital).

anniv91106 · Jun 12, 2012

Im close to finishing my RN to BSN program. To be frank about it, if not for the recession giving healthcare facilities the boldness to start showing a strong preference for BSN grads, I likely never would have done it.
I remember when the recession started and the talk about BSN prepared nurses becoming the min requirement followed. Many, including myself for a short while, said exactly what you are saying. I changed my mind though.
First, and most importantly, the economy is not going to improve any time soon. I remember people insisting it would be a one year thing.......and that was three years ago. The media and politicians are working overtime trying to convince us things are slowly getting better. It is no coincidence that they are doing so during an election year. If it were not an election year, the reporting would be pretty much what it had been before: more job loss, unemployment running out and the nation is bankrupt. It is going to be a very long time indeed before we see any positive changes that are not the result of biased reporting.
Then, when things do get better, the degree in which they do improve is going to be minimal. It will not be a case where we all walk out our front doors one day and enter a world that resembles pre-recession times. The America that stands before us after recovering from all of this will resemble what it is like today more so, with some slight improvements here and there.
Further, said improvements will be in financial areas other than healthcare. We will get help through osmosis as our patients will no longer put off care, but not enough help to make up for severe compensation cuts. Insurances and medicare/medicaid will continue to save themselves by expecting us to provide better care for less.
I considered/pondered all of this when I went into the RN to BSN program that I am now close to completing. It is what drove me back to the classroom. I think being more marketable is no longer a luxury but is a necessity for nurses and many other career paths. So far, the predictions I made that I believed in enough to act on them and return to school have held strong.
I also predict that we BSN grads will be filling the roles ADNs used to take, and the competition for steady employment will become so fierce that ADN prepared nurses will be forced to accept lower salaries. It will be BSN vs BSN for acute care positions, ADNs will not be in the picture. In essence, BSNs will take ADN positions and ADNs will become the new LPN, but wages will be stagnant. Wages do not increase, but the education level of the people filling the role will. The end result will be increased requirements to fill the role without increased compensation. That's what the healthcare providers have been waiting for.
To the OP: I strongly suggest getting your BSN. I am not one of those people who will tell you it will make you a better nurse. My opinion of my RN to BSN training is that it is a lot of formalities and posturing meant to make you earn a title. But, staying employed is enough of a priority to me that I'll tolerate it. Things are not going to improve any time soon, may as well be prepared for it.
One last thing: I most definitely do not suggest entertaining the popular notion that ADNs will be "grandfathered" into keeping their positions once the push for BSN trained nursing is complete. I used to work as a travel nurse, and on two occasions I was brought in to fill in gaps on the schedule that were created when hospitals suddenly decided to do away with LPNs. One such hospital called in the LPNs and informed them they could go home, they would be paid for that day, and their positions had been eliminated. Some of them had been loyal to the hospital for >20yrs. They didn't get "grandfathered". Don't drink that poisoned kool aid. If you want more info on that matter, ask about it in the LPN forum.

We all float down here.

And to think they did this without a RN/pt. ratio law! When are nurses (mostly women) really going to stand up for themselves?

applewhitern, BSN, RN · Jun 12, 2012

I haven't noticed a trend toward hiring only the BSN in my area at all. As a matter of fact, our DON has only the ADN. Also, my cousin is an ADN who was just promoted to DON at her facility. What I have seen, however, is hospitals are requiring a certification in the area you wish to be hired in. Hardly any hospitals here hire LPN's, only a few small rural ones do. We have lots of avenues in which to obtain the BSN or higher here, including several large teaching hospitals. Maybe they just don't want to pay that extra 50 cents per hour...