Frustrated in BSN program - page 3

by JZ_RN

12,646 Views | 128 Comments

So I am tired of getting treated like an ignorant, useless nurse because I only have an ADN and denied employment everywhere because I'm not a BSN. I get into a BSN program and start taking EXPENSIVE classes, on my own dime, and... Read More


  1. 2
    Quote from Ntheboat2
    I think all ADN programs require anatomy and physiology I and II, but I don't know of any (although I'm sure they exist) that require pathophysiology.

    My BSN program required pathophysiology but I don't know if I'd even consider that "loads."

    Either way, it doesn't really matter in this case because the bottom line seems to be that she wants to work in a hospital and by her own testimony can't even get an interview. Maybe it isn't the pathophysiology they think the BSN brings, but it doesn't change the simple fact that more and more hospitals want it.

    I checked just to be sure and my local CC doesn't require it. In fact, many students take the ADN route here after they fail patho at the university for the very reason that they don't have to take it. After doing a simple search here on allnurses.com I came across this thread where people are saying that even pharmacology isn't part of their ADN program. That's even more shocking.

    http://allnurses.com/general-nursing...gy-757247.html
    All ADN programs require pathophys, although they don't separate it into a separate class since it's been integrated into Nursing courses since at least 1975.

    To use the University of Washington example again (top ranked Nursing program in the US), they don't require a separate pathophysiology class either. So that means ASN programs are in the same league as the top ranked BSN program in the country, that's a pretty good league to be in.
    mo2rn and Esme12 like this.
  2. 1
    Quote from MunoRN
    All ADN programs require pathophys, although they don't separate it into a separate class since it's been integrated into Nursing courses since at least 1975.

    To use the University of Washington example again (top ranked Nursing program in the US), they don't require a separate pathophysiology class either. So that means ASN programs are in the same league as the top ranked BSN program in the country, that's a pretty good league to be in.
    "Clinical applications of anatomy and physiology" sure, it's not called "pathophysiology," but there is a significant period of time dedicated to what's basically the same thing.

    Again, any degree is PRACTICALLY (in every sense of the word) useless if you can't get a job. If you can't get the job you want (like...oh...a job in the hospital) then it's just a step above.

    Like I said to begin with....if the OP is happy in her current job then she should quit the program. However, if she wants to work elsewhere then she's going to run into the same problem that sent her back to school to begin with.

    I should've known here on allnurses.com that pointing out what should be a simple, harmless comment like, "pathophysiology should be useful to a hospital nurse" would open up a door.
    neverbethesame likes this.
  3. 0
    Quote from MunoRN
    That would seem to imply a significant difference, as opposed to "semantics" in which the only difference is the word used.. I was talking with another Nurse the other night who had an ASN and wanted an MSN at some point and figured she needed a BSN first. She was looking at an MSN program (which was not designed as an ADN to MSN program) which required a BSN, although they would accept a 4 page essay in lieu of a BSN. This was one of the top ranked Nursing programs in the nation which considered the difference between an ASN and a BSN to be essentially a 4 page homework assignment, not exactly a significant difference.
    From the University of Washington website:
    If you are admitted to the MN program, additional requirements you MUST meet before starting the program are:
    • successful completion of one of the following:
      • a baccalaureate nursing degree from an accredited university
      • an associate degree or diploma from an accredited RN program, and a baccalaureate degree in a non-nursing field
    The fact that you must have a baccalaureate degree in another field is a tiny little detail you didn't mention.
  4. 0
    Quote from Ntheboat2
    From the University of Washington website:
    If you are admitted to the MN program, additional requirements you MUST meet before starting the program are:
    • successful completion of one of the following:
      • a baccalaureate nursing degree from an accredited university
      • an associate degree or diploma from an accredited RN program, and a baccalaureate degree in a non-nursing field
    The fact that you must have a baccalaureate degree in another field is a tiny little detail you didn't mention.
    You'll notice my previous statement referred specifically to "BSN"s, not the difference between an associates and just any bachelor's degree.

    For the majority of current ASN graduates in my state, the difference between their degree and a BSN is the key definition, since more than 50% of ASN graduates currently have a previous bachelor's degree.

    From page 3 of their MSN application requirements under "BSN equivalency essays"
    http://nursing.uw.edu/sites/default/...structions.pdf
  5. 0
    Quote from Ntheboat2
    "Clinical applications of anatomy and physiology" sure, it's not called "pathophysiology," but there is a significant period of time dedicated to what's basically the same thing.

    Again, any degree is PRACTICALLY (in every sense of the word) useless if you can't get a job. If you can't get the job you want (like...oh...a job in the hospital) then it's just a step above.

    Like I said to begin with....if the OP is happy in her current job then she should quit the program. However, if she wants to work elsewhere then she's going to run into the same problem that sent her back to school to begin with.

    I should've known here on allnurses.com that pointing out what should be a simple, harmless comment like, "pathophysiology should be useful to a hospital nurse" would open up a door.
    Are you under the impression that there are RNs who don't have pathophysiology included in their curriculum?
  6. 0
    Quote from MunoRN
    This was one of the top ranked Nursing programs in the nation which considered the difference between an ASN and a BSN to be essentially a 4 page homework assignment, not exactly a significant difference.
    I don't like semantics games. Plus, it's misleading to all the people who read this site looking for advice. Anyone reading that post would assume that what you were saying is that a person with an associate's degree in nursing could write an essay and apply to the MSN program. Sure, they can....IF they already have a bachelor's in another field...which is an important point to mention.

    I think there IS a significant difference in someone who already has a bachelor's degree AND is an RN applying to a MSN program vs. someone who has an associate's degree period applying to a MSN program.

    The real difference is a boat load of college credits in addition to that "4 page homework assignment."

    So, did you ever tell the OP if you think they should quit the program or keep going?
  7. 1
    Quote from MunoRN
    Are you under the impression that there are RNs who don't have pathophysiology included in their curriculum?
    Where do you come up with this?

    I'm under the impression that diet and nutrition is "included in the curriculum" for any type of nurse and even nursing assistants. That doesn't mean that they couldn't learn something by taking a course devoted to nutrition.
    wooh likes this.
  8. 0
    Quote from Ntheboat2
    I don't like semantics games. Plus, it's misleading to all the people who read this site looking for advice. Anyone reading that post would assume that what you were saying is that a person with an associate's degree in nursing could write an essay and apply to the MSN program. Sure, they can....IF they already have a bachelor's in another field...which is an important point to mention.

    I think there IS a significant difference in someone who already has a bachelor's degree AND is an RN applying to a MSN program vs. someone who has an associate's degree period applying to a MSN program.

    The real difference is a boat load of college credits in addition to that "4 page homework assignment."

    So, did you ever tell the OP if you think they should quit the program or keep going?
    An ASN consists of about 45 credits of pre-reqs and 2 years of Nursing program. A BSN consists of 45 credits of pre-reqs, 2 years of Nursing program, and about 45 credits of electives. For me, those 45 credits of electives (the only substantial difference between an ASN and BSN) consisted mainly of geography, PE (sailing, running) and classical lit. I really don't think that "boatload" of extra college credits which mainly involved reading Homer and sailing made any measurable difference in my Nursing skills. If UW saw any significant difference in my Nursing education and that of a ADN then they'd probably want to see those requirements fulfilled, but as it turns out, they don't.
  9. 0
    Quote from Ntheboat2
    Where do you come up with this?

    I'm under the impression that diet and nutrition is "included in the curriculum" for any type of nurse and even nursing assistants. That doesn't mean that they couldn't learn something by taking a course devoted to nutrition.
    Where I came up with this:
    Quote from Ntheboat2
    Are you taking pathophysiology yet? I don't see how learning the disease process wouldn't help a hospital nurse.

    Pathophysiology is not part of an ASN to BSN program, why? Because it's an integral part of any ASN or BSN curriculum, ASN students do not lack pathophysiology knowledge any more than a BSN does. It's exactly this sort of ignorance regarding ASN curriculum that leads to an unfounded bias towards ASN nurses among BSN prepared Nurses.
  10. 2
    Quote from MunoRN
    An ASN consists of about 45 credits of pre-reqs and 2 years of Nursing program. A BSN consists of 45 credits of pre-reqs, 2 years of Nursing program, and about 45 credits of electives. For me, those 45 credits of electives (the only substantial difference between an ASN and BSN) consisted mainly of geography, PE (sailing, running) and classical lit. I really don't think that "boatload" of extra college credits which mainly involved reading Homer and sailing made any measurable difference in my Nursing skills. If UW saw any significant difference in my Nursing education and that of a ADN then they'd probably want to see those requirements fulfilled, but as it turns out, they don't.
    Obviously they DO want to see those requirements fulfilled because they do require an ADN graduate to also have a bachelor's degree. What's the difference in a bachelor's degree in social work and a bachelor's degree in nursing? Well, it would be those 45 credits that you claim no one cares about, yet they still require to even consider an applicant.

    Anyway, if I wanted to debate ADN vs BSN then I'd go back to that thread. You're obsessed with the topic to the point that you refute all logic and bypass unrelated questions.
    Anoetos and wooh like this.


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