Diploma = Bad?

Tweety, BSN, RN · Nov 4, 2007

Does it sound normal for a diploma school to start clinicals at 5 weeks? Or is the norm for all 2-3 yr RN programs. I was excited to hear we started clinicals so early - I cant wait for the "hands on".

One thing good about diploma programs is they have the most clinicals of all the degrees. But five weeks is normal for BSN and ADN programs too, they jump right on in, usually doing basic care like baths, catheters, etc. but not med passing or head-to-toe assessments.

suzy253, RN · Nov 4, 2007

Does it sound normal for a diploma school to start clinicals at 5 weeks? Or is the norm for all 2-3 yr RN programs. I was excited to hear we started clinicals so early - I cant wait for the "hands on".

Yes. In my diploma program we were starting clinical in the 5th or 6th week.

leslie :-D · Nov 4, 2007

we started our clinicals within 2 weeks.

and my experiences, were much like elkpark's.

if anything, it has been a tremendous advantage for me, graduating from a diploma school.

the only thing i'd change, is my school was very elitist.

it was ingrained in our heads, "you are a Baptist nurse".

and the parent hospital, basically only had the very rich, well known, for patients.

i chose not to work there.

but dang, i received a top notch education, and wouldn't change anything about its quality.

leslie

Jess_Missouri_RN · Nov 5, 2007

Thanks to everyone who posted, I really feel better and cant wait to start school in January!

shrinkyrn · Nov 5, 2007

The quality of the education provided by many (most?) diploma programs is excellent and well-respected. However, because the diploma schools are not part of the same "higher education" system in this county, the academic credentials they provide are not always as transferable to other to colleges and universities. You may have to jump through a few more hoops to continue your nursing education beyond the entry-level diploma. In some areas, all of the diploma programs have been phased out to encourage the education of nurses within the country's mainstream system of higher education (colleges and universities).
Also, keep in mind that the very reason that diploma programs exist is to provide the hospital that runs them with a steady stream of new grads for employment in that same hospital system. In some places, that results in a course of study that is geared to the particular practices of that parent institution -- and less focused on general nursing education preparing you for jobs outside that same hospital system. That might not make much difference to you, but it might. For example, if the parent hospital system does not have large pediatrics or maternity services, the amount of education you receive in those subjects might be minimal -- just enough to meet the state board requirements and no more -- because they don't want you becoming interested in those fields and deciding to work for their competitor hospital across town. Or they may teach you how to work well with their equipment and procedures, but not prepare you well to function with the other types of equipment or procedures that you might find elsewhere -- because they don't want you feeling comfortable working elsewhere. In fact, their faculty may be compensated based on how many graduating students take jobs at their own hospital, causing the faculty to be biased in the career recommendations, etc. Those things don't happen everywhere and may not be a factor in your case ... but they are something to watch out for.

:nono: Not sure where you got your information. My diploma education prepared me to function in ANY hospital. I've never been sorry that I attended a diploma program. In fact I did not work at the hospital I attended for nursing school after I graduated and neither did most of my class of 30 +++ We went to other facilities to get the experiences we needed to get a superior clinical education!!!!

suzy253, RN · Nov 5, 2007

For example, if the parent hospital system does not have large pediatrics or maternity services, the amount of education you receive in those subjects might be minimal -- just enough to meet the state board requirements and no more -- because they don't want you becoming interested in those fields and deciding to work for their competitor hospital across town. Or they may teach you how to work well with their equipment and procedures, but not prepare you well to function with the other types of equipment or procedures that you might find elsewhere -- because they don't want you feeling comfortable working elsewhere.

That is so not true. Four of my fellow grads work in ICU--straight from graduation in a diploma program; 2 work in the ER. Several work in trauma hospital; a well known woman and infant's hospital, etc. etc. And believe me, we are all very much prepared for equipment and procedures. In fact, I have students working with me know from 'degree programs' and it's very very sad and almost frightening how much they don't know this far along in their education.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Nov 6, 2007

That is so not true. Four of my fellow grads work in ICU--straight from graduation in a diploma program; 2 work in the ER. Several work in trauma hospital; a well known woman and infant's hospital, etc. etc. And believe me, we are all very much prepared for equipment and procedures. In fact, I have students working with me know from 'degree programs' and it's very very sad and almost frightening how much they don't know this far along in their education.

One can always find persons from another degree that are "frightening". We hear it all the time "I work with BSN nurses who are horrible nurses, and know only how to push paper", "ADN nurses don't get enough clinical experiences compared to diploma nurses are far inferior nurses", "Diploma nurses are task oriented, they know how to add postassium to an IV but it takes a BSN to know why"...............doesn't mean much to me when I hear that argument.

Also, notice that llg clarified that she was talking about what is going on locally and perhaps the op might take it into consideration, she wasn't generalizing that all diploma teaching hospitals were like this.

llg, PhD, RN · Nov 6, 2007

Not sure where you got your information. My diploma education prepared me to function in ANY hospital. I've never been sorry that I attended a diploma program. In fact I did not work at the hospital I attended for nursing school after I graduated and neither did most of my class of 30 +++ We went to other facilities to get the experiences we needed to get a superior clinical education!!!!

As I said in my original posts, my information comes directly from faculty members and from the program director herself ! Those are pretty reliable sources of information.

Perhaps that wasn't true where you live. But it IS true where I live -- and students entering the program deserve to know that going in.

As Tweety said -- and I totally agree -- there are good programs and bad programs at every level. No one type of program (ADN, Diploma, or BSN) has a monopoly on producing good nurses, or bad ones. Every school and every circumstance must be evaluated individually.

In my earlier post, I went out of my way more than once to say that the quality of education provided by the 2 schools that I mentioned was excellent. It's just that they both had a bias that needs to be openly acknowledged so that prospective students can assess their local situation for themselves.

Anyone who can't imagine that there could possibly be a problem in any type of eduational program is being pretty closed-minded. My entry-level degree was a BSN. But that doesn't lead me to conclude that every BSN program is just like the one I graduated from. I readily acknowledge that SOME BSN programs are not very good ... just as some ADN programs are not very good ... and some Diploma programs are not very good. And even programs that are generally good ones can have a few problems like that one I brought into this discussion. We all need to open-minded about all types of programs.

iluvmynavyman · Nov 8, 2007

if cali had a diaploma program like they do on the east coast i would do it because you get more hands on experience

abri · Nov 20, 2007

I am a diploma grad from the late '60s when the 3 yr programs were changing over to AD programs. As one of the other posts mentioned, it depends on the school. (I'm biased as I too attended a religious supported nursing program.) I did stay at my hospital for 2 yrs before moving on and since then, have worked in other states and have not had any problems w/ adapting.

I returned to college seven years ago and all 35 credits from my first year of college which was part of the three year program back then were accepted as part of the BA program. I graduated w/ my BA in social science, and a formal minor in business administration through a distance degree program from a state college(WSU, Pullman, WA). I declined to take the BSN program that was introduced a year later, as I would have had to repeat microbiology due to a D my first semester in 1966, take a micro lab as I did not have that, take stats and then I could buy my junior year of credits because of my RN license (about $400 fee) and then take my senior year of required classes. I was enjoying taking the classes that I wanted as I was choosing classes that related to nursing, i.e child development, child abuse, domestic violence, family crisis, gerontology, and other women studies classes. I wrote many essays using nursing as my subjects. I have worked as a hospital supervisor for the past 20 years and as a result of my degree, I was hired as an assistant unit manager of our ED.

Congratulations for choosing a career that provides opportunities for a variety of areas to work in, allows you to travel and work, with a good income, too.