BSN as entry into practice; why we decided against it. - page 11
While hopefully avoiding stoking the ADN - BSN debate unnecessarily, I thought I'd share my experience with my state's consideration of BSN as entry into practice, as well as the BSN-in-10 initiative. About 3 years ago I sat... Read More
- 1Nov 19, '12 by SummitRNQuote from redhead_NURSE98!Your point is quite valid. And this is a forum for professional nurses; it is not the classroom, but it is also not the street. Therefor everyone makes some mistakes, but poorly written posts are not as effective. It is extra ironic when poorly written posts defend lower education requirements even if the author has reached a higher level. Of course, I speak only in terms of general perception.I think anyone with minimal education would know that spelling is covered in one's elementary education; after that, the damage is done and improvement of those skills doesn't happen very easily, so slamming on someone with a "community college education" for one misspelled word is sort of silly, if that's what you were doing. So would be a claim that someone with higher degrees is going to have better spelling skills as a result of those higher degrees. I went to law school with someone who graduated in the top 5% that couldn't distinguish between their, they're and there, or you're and your. I can assure you that law school did not improve those skills for her, as I read many post graduate motions of hers and the misspellings were still there. (Or, they were still their. lol)
- 2Nov 19, '12 by PMFB-RNQuote from SummitAP*** This is a very old debating trick. Attack the messenger instead of addressing the argument that has been made. It can be safely assumed the person using this old tactic have run out of valid arguments to support their position.Your point is quite valid. And this is a forum for professional nurses; it is not the classroom, but it is also not the street. Therefor everyone makes some mistakes, but poorly written posts are not as effective. It is extra ironic when poorly written posts defend lower education requirements even if the author has reached a higher level. Of course, I speak only in terms of general perception.
- 0Nov 19, '12 by SummitRNYes it is a poor debate tactic if used to knock down the actual argument. I agree. But that isn't what I did. I agreed with the poster saying that higher education has little bearing on spelling.
I was talking in terms of general perception and of irony. In that way, my point is fine.
- 0Nov 19, '12 by Ntheboat2You should be thrilled. Speaking of tactics...after several unsuccessful attempts to elicit a response, you got one!
Btw, it wasn't a "one time thing." I just now chose to mention it.
Afterall, this isn't really a debate. People who have a GED will defend a GED. People who have a bachelor's degree in underwater basket weaving and work at a fast food joint will defend their brilliant idea to obtain the basket weaving degree.
The facts speak for themselves. In the end, that's all that really matters.
Now, pick that apart piece by piece, out of context, and have a ball!
- 0Nov 19, '12 by brandy1017Quote from SummitAPWhile in Denver this is the case, it is not the case everywhere. In the midwest where I live and work ADN's are still able to get jobs and I know several ADN new grad RN's hired by two different hospital systems. There could be more systems taking new ADN's, don't know personally. Where I work the RN's run the gamut from ADN to BSN to direct entry MSN who are currently finishing their NP. About half the staff is planning on getting an NP and leaving bedside care, some have already graduated. Some were able to get jobs easily as an NP, others struggled to find a job. If you think it is hard to get an RN job, I'm sure the NP is even harder as the market is being saturated with half dozen or so colleges offering the NP program.Your interpretation of stats is ludicrous. The bias towards BSNs is predominantly new grads though still some towards ADNs, thus looking at an overall RN population is misleading. The new grad stats I posted earlier show a 10% more employed instead of 3% more employed.
Also, where are you getting this idea that there are no clinical placements for more BSN students if ADN programs shut down?
In Denver, ASN programs are losing their placements to BSN programs. In fact, one longtime ASN program shut down last year stating this as a reason.
Many ASN programs are sending their students over 100 miles away to find clinical sites.
With 10+ qualified applicants for every nursing school slot, students will make the sacrifice, as they do now.
Where I work we have both ADN and BSN student clinicals from several different schools. Over the years there have been hospital consolidations and even closures in the inner city, coupled with new hospitals being built in the suburbs so jobs are still available.
As far as your neck of the woods, I've heard Colorado is a difficult place to get an RN job with a lot of competition. It really depends where you live and how outgoing you are and who you know!Last edit by brandy1017 on Nov 19, '12
- 2Nov 19, '12 by PRICHARILLAisMISSEDSo...Are we all in agreement that a BSN is only necessary because the hospitals can be picky, or use it as a tie breaker? I mean this discussion has been going on for days now, and not one defender of having a BSN for entry into the Nursing profession has given any reason whatsoever why a BSN should be the minimum requirement. Well again with the exception of "Because the hospitals want it, so there!!"
As a reminder, The OP wrote this article to explain why they decided that an ADN was indeed sufficient education to carry out what is expected as an ENTRY level floor nurse.
So pretty please, with sugar on top with whipped cream and a succulent cherry, "Can ANYONE give a valid reason other than" "Because the hospitals can be picky, or use it as a tie breaker?" or "Because the hospitals want it, so there!!?" that an aspiring ENTRY LEVEL Nurse should go the BSN route vice the ADN route? I will concede that it will be a tie breaker and that YES, it will be preferred over an ADN. But should it be? Does the extra time and money spent to obtain a BSN over an ADN translate to commensurate gains in skill over a new grad ADN, ie does the extra time and money you put in make you a better nurse by enough to justify the time and money investment? Does it make you better at all?
- 1Nov 19, '12 by Ntheboat2Continuing education, higher education, or whatever you want to call it is the natural progression of every profession known to man!
Look at history. Prostitutes were practically plucked off the streets and transformed into nurses without any education! Furthermore, they were "successful" for the standards of that time. So, you could argue that NO education is necessary to function as a nurse, lawyer, or anything else for the sake of argument.
My grandparents had jobs that didn't require an education when they started, but toward the end of their careers, the company wouldn't even let you in the door without a degree. Why did they start requiring a degree when a man with an 8th grade education was literally deemed one of the best employees in the company? Maybe because times have changed, education is more attainable, and there's no excuse NOT to have the most educated, motivated professionals in the field?
I'm not sure what kind of answer you're looking for. In fact, I don't think ANY answer will matter because you have your opinion, which is fine, and that's not going to change.
So, here's a new question.....why do we require any education for nurses? Why not hire prostitutes?
Just for fun, why do we let women vote? The world still turned without women voters. How about freeing the slaves? The world didn't stop when we had slaves either.
It's called progress. There's your answer.
- 1Nov 19, '12 by PRICHARILLAisMISSED[QUOTE=Ntheboat2;7039782]Continuing education, higher education, or whatever you want to call it is the natural progression of every profession known to man!
More education is a natural progression because as things become more complicated (a side effect of progress), more education is needed to keep up. And when an ENTRY LEVEL Nurse's Scope of practice encompasses more than an ADN education can match, then I will be all for a higher education requirement for it. Until then there is just no justification for it.