BSN does not mean better... Sometimes education is overrated!

Kim O'Therapy, BSN, RN · Jun 12, 2007

Your post reminds me so much of myself! I started out in school with the plan of getting an ADN. Then, things changed. I love college so much that I switched my plans to pre-BSN. Sometimes I am glad that the ADN program in my city is backed up 3 years. It forced me to think BSN!
I want a bachelors degree very badly, besides the nursing education part of the degree. I, too, will be the first in my family to get a bachelor's degree. Agree about the age thing, also! I don't want to go back! Anyway, your post really resonated with me.

Thanks for the note. Good luck and congratulations on your acceptance! :balloons:

JustMe · Jun 12, 2007

romansten9: "As for myself, I am currently taking an ADN program...I will graduate with 7 years of school under my belt and 20 years of Critical Care experience as a Paramedic and as an ACLS and PALS Instructor."

As a critical care nurse for over 25 years I think you will find that critical care nursing is much different than ER nursing. Paramedic training doesn't quite prepare you for hemodynamic monitoring, IABP maintenance, vasopressor titration, etc, etc. That being said, I certainly appreciate that you bring a unique body of knowledge to the nursing profession and I welcome your input--because nobody--NOBODY--knows it all! :loveya:

jjjoy, LPN · Jun 12, 2007

I have said before that I think the skills checklist should be required in BSN too. I got my BSN and I have noticed a difference in some schools nurses. I was one that had trouble with the whole IV thing. I had expereince in nursing school, but you can only get so much chances because there isn't many. I always tell the nursing school students to get the Iv expereince. :)

I was in a BSN program and we had a skills checklist. There were few opportunities to participate in many of the skills and we had to be vigilant in order to find opportunities to get enough skills checked off. To get to practice many skills more than once was uncommon. We weren't taught how to start IVs at all and weren't allowed to perform them as nursing students, though we hung IV meds and monitored IV sites.

We were formally taught that basic patient hygiene was a part of nursing and not to think it "below" us but we were also explicitly told that the BSN education was more involved than RN-only education and would one day be the entry to practice. So when you run across certain attitudes again and again, it could be that they are parroting their instructors. If they had instructors who said "You are RNs (or RN-BSNs) with more important things to deal with. You should always delegate that to assistive staff" the new grads are likely to say that, too. I'm not saying once should accept it, but getting angry at that person for a bad attitude isn't a constructive place to start influencing them to change.

ambil · Jun 12, 2007

I think I can contribute something to think about here. I've been working in germany for the last 20 years or so. I came over here with a , ha, BSN in nursing. Because of my great education I was taken into the system right away, even though my german was pretty shaky in the beginning. My point is, a higher education equals competence and respect, for the most part that is. I know, I know, there are nurses out there who have their BSN and even more and one wonders how they make it to work everyday-ha, but a higher education is like money in the bank. No one can every take it away. A big problem here in germany is that to become a nurse one does not have to attend a university at all. One can acquire a high school diploma and take a three year training program and become a nurse. Some people think oh great, even I can become a nurse. Well, thats the problem sometimes. Some people just shouldn't be in nursing if they don't have what it takes. When I see nursing jobs here listed next to the "looking for a maid" position I know that something in wrong. Education equals respect in the long run and if I can earn more money for that then thankyou very much! :)

IrishEyes20 · Jun 13, 2007

We are all nurses. Period.

blady · Jun 14, 2007

maybe i have just had some bad experiences. i actually had a nurse tell me that she would go and assess my patient because she didn't feel that my education (as an lpn) was concrete enough to make a good assessment. i was furious. by the way she screwed up anyway. she was an adn nurse. which really doesn't matter.
also, a bsn nurse that i work with told me to my face..... do not go to an adn program. you will walk out of there not knowing why you do what you do. she told me that adn programs just show you how to perform a skill but don't tell you why you do things. then she told me to go and get my bsn because they are the only true nurses.
i was floored. i have actually had a few more experiences but those are the ones that stick out in my mind. i feel thats ridiculous.
i wasn't trying to get anything stirred up. just expressing my anger about this.
so to answer your question...yes...people have actually said things like that to me.
i pretty much just ignore them. sometimes its not worth it to get into a heated debate. some peoples minds will never be changed.

it's not about having a heated debate because you will never change anyone who is wise about the value of education. the rn was accurate in both instances. it's important to know your scope of practice according to the law and to know the rationale behind your skills. a good nurse needs more than skills. if you do anything over a period of time, you better know what you're doing, so to hear others brag about their experience is meaningless. we're all going to get there. everyone started off with a blank slate. having experience doesn't exempt one from making mistakes.

it's important to know the history of nursing and what it took to be deemed a profession. please note that since 1965 the ana advocated that entry level begin at the baccalaureate level. you may say that it will never happen, bear in mind that nursing was not considered honorable. in some foreign countries there is no such thing as nclex. that's because you have to have acquired a certain level of education before you are accepted in nursing school. by the time you graduate there is no need to prove that you are lpn or rn. in this country one is given the opportunity to enter with minimal education, so why shouldn't one be required to attain more, thanks to somebody that it's a matter of choice.

education is never "overated"...it's a gift you give yourself. though you may fail to see it's relevance at that time, it's part of the bigger picture, which includes making you become more flexible, and well-rounded, not to mention educated, and off course more of a critical thinker(important tools for being a good nurse)

twotrees2 · Jun 14, 2007

I think every nursing student should be required to work as an aid for a semester, or over the summer before nursing school starts. I've worked as an aid for 3 years and just graduated Friday with my ADN. Aids always say that you can tell the RNs who were aids from the ones who weren't because the ones who WEREN'T will take 5 minutes to find you to tell you your pt needs to get on the bedpan..the ones who WERE will just PUT THEM ON THE BEDPAN:) Seriously, I swear that I will never do that. I know that as an RN I will not always have the time to do stuff the aid can do, but I also see those tasks as giving me extra time to evaluate my pt. As far as education...in my area BSNs do not make any more $ than ADNs. My thinking is this; for someone just out of HS, they're young, probably not a lot of life experience...the BSN classes will make them a well-rounded nurse. For someone my age, who's been around the block a couple times...lol....I don't think it's as necessary. Not for a pt care position, anyway.

never say never lol - that said - your coworkers will certainly appreciate you more helpinga nd when you do have to say no i cant or need to go get them to do the bedpan or whatever ( and i promise you it will happen when you absolutely dont have the few min it takes ) they will understand and will appreciate you .

as for BSN vs ADN - i look at the BSN as they can have to more money for thier management and supervisor positions ( but when they stick my butt as an ADN in charge they dang well shoudl pay me more then too!! ) personally i dont want the management responsibilities - i wasnt cut for that - im all patient hands on care not paperwork and politics and pocketbooks lol.

vrgladney · Jun 14, 2007

I have to agree that nurses who were NA's before are far more comfortable in their jobs that those that were not. They are also better organized. I was an aide for 12 long years. I recently bacame an LPN(6 mos. ago) and am in school for my ADN. All those years of balancing 10-15 residents paid off, in school I ran circles around the students who never worked in healthcare. And I can now run circles around some more experienced nurses on my unit. As far as the ADN vs. BSN thing goes, i think a lot of the difference is that most(not all) BSN grads went straight from high school to 4 years of dorm style-mom pays my bills living. They have little life or work experience. Most ADNs took the long road there and have had time to work out their mistakes along the way. I do think that all states should require ALL nurses to be aids first, LPNs, ADNs and BSNs included.

RNDreamer · Jun 14, 2007

I disagree with making folks be an aid before becoming a nurse. I took and CNA course because I wanted to be a CNA. But I don't believe being a aide makes you a better nurse, only more comfortable around patients...I was speaking to a friend of mine who graduated from the program I'm entering next month...before the program she had no healthcare experience. She did not need to be an aide to be comfortable with patients, the first three weeks of clinical at a nursing home were enough.

jjjoy, LPN · Jun 14, 2007

I disagree with making folks be an aid before becoming a nurse... a friend of mine who graduated from the program I'm entering next month...before the program she had no healthcare experience. She did not need to be an aide to be comfortable with patients, the first three weeks of clinical at a nursing home were enough.

Yes, some people don't need the experience and they do just fine. The fact that some people do fine without being a aide first doesn't automatically mean that it would be a pointless requirement. It could still be a useful requirement if it were determined to help produce better nurses as a group (versus each individual nurse who has their own strengths and weaknesses). It could be a good mechanism to ensure that nursing students have a good idea of what they're getting into and that they already have had successful experience working with patients. It could also help keep a steady stream of motivated aides coming through health facilties.

justme1972 · Jun 15, 2007

okay so here's my point.
i have been reading several things on here about "i have my bsn so therefore i should make more money..blah, blah, blah" frankly i am sick of hearing it. let me give you a little background on me before i finish what i started.
i started out as an stna (cna) about 8 years ago. then i went and got my lpn. now i am getting my adn and i will graduate in may 2008. once i get my adn i am planning on going back and getting my bsn.
now let me say that i have met many bsn nurses who could not even figure out how to empty a foley drainage bag. they deemed that as "aide work". they also thought that they were better than us, and that we should bow down to them. also, i have met many bsn nurses who were so knowledgeable about everything and were excellent nurses. bedside manner was fantastic.
in general..i have met good nurses and bad nurses. that includes lpn's, bsn's and adn's. just because you have more education does not mean that you are better and should be paid more. honestly, bsn is a choice. it is a choice that i want to make. why would an employer pay a bsn all this money when they could pay an adn or a diploma rn less money for the same job? therefore...around the same pay for both. i just get sick and tired of people saying...i am better than you because i went to school for one year longer or two years or whatever. education is very important .....but its not everything when it comes to this debate. i met this master's degree nurse and she was sooooo stupid. i couldn't believe that she managed to get her degree. i knew this lpn who was smarter than any nurse i have ever met....rn's included. and vice versa.
my point: what makes a good nurse is personality, common sense and what you do with the knowledge that you possess.:balloons:

there are alot of reasons why hospitals pay for "papers". my uncle was a military-trained medical technologist..but he learned this in the military and never went to actual school for it. it wasn't long after he started work that it became a 4-year degree, and he trained every boss he had for over 25 years before he became the boss. guess who had to go to him every time there was very complex testing, something was wrong with the machines, etc??? yup, you guessed it, my uncle.

a hospital isn't paying, in my opinion (and i'm speaking strickly about rn's here), for skill level, they are paying for papers if they pay their bsn's more.

KarmaComesAround · Jun 15, 2007

I have said before that I think the skills checklist should be required in BSN too. I got my BSN and I have noticed a difference in some schools nurses. I was one that had trouble with the whole IV thing. I had expereince in nursing school, but you can only get so much chances because there isn't many. I always tell the nursing school students to get the Iv expereince. :)

The BSN program I was in had checkoffs throughout the first semester...then each semester after that, you had to pass another checkoff to begin that semester. Also, we were the first group to go through a new BSN curriculum, and we had to do a 124 hour preceptorship our final semester. It was extremely helpful working those full 12 hour shifts with an experienced nurse. It really gave us the opportunity to do soooo many things/skills.