Becoming a RN after high school

besaangel, ASN, BSN, MSN, CNA, RN, APRN, NP · May 19, 2013

4. PA is not a doctorate level degree. If you want to be a PA, I wouldn't pursue nursing. An undergrad degree in nursing doesn't give you all the science courses you need to enter a PA program so you'd have to finish your BSN, take more undergrad courses and then apply for the PA Masters program. Why would you want to get a degree you have no intention of using? If you want to hold a doctorate level degree as a practitioner, why not go to medical school?

Not true. In my BSN program, for example, I had to do Stats, Nutrition, Chem 1 & 2, Micro, Biochem (or Organic and Inorganic if not accepted into Biochem), A&P 1 & 2, Biology (Intro), Pathophysiology, humanities and social sciences, ALL of which are needed for PA school if I still wanted to apply.

Yes, not all programs are created that way but that makes your point subjective as most PA programs require a Bachelors for entry level and what better way to get the experience than to be a RN (IMHO)... I might get stoned for that last comment

So I support any nurse who wants to go to NP or PA school or even med school because thats their choice to use nursing as a stepping stone... *dont killl me* :facepalm:

Now the last sentence (to me) is like saying why get a DNP if you are just gonna be a bedside nurse.. Why not be a medical doctor if you wanted a doctorate and be a primary care practioner??? Its not that cut and dry...

besaangel, ASN, BSN, MSN, CNA, RN, APRN, NP · May 19, 2013

Sorry for the spam lol but the PA school in my area is mostly admits RNs because they already know so much about healthcare and patient care that they are more successful as compared to a xray tech (for example)

Just saying, if you wanna be a RN and end up teaching philosophy, it isnt a waste; You'll always be a nurse

nurseprice · May 22, 2013

*** Actually none of the above is correct.
*** No she can not do 2 years of pre-reqs and then do an RN BSN program. RN BSN programs are for people who are already RNs.
*** Actually since there are a number of RN to MSN NP program that do not require a BSN one could argue that the BSN is an unnecessary step.

2. IS correct, in my area..

ANYONE can enroll in community college reguardless of their GPA.

RNS w/ a BSN have more promotion opportunities than ADN in MY district.

3. after pre'reqs she CAN transfer to university or private institute and do the BSN program

nurseprice · May 22, 2013

I believe you should check your facts before advising anyone.
"RNs who have an ADN get paid a few dollars less than ones who have a BSN". Really? What's your reference? That's news to all the ADNs who get paid the same wage or, in some cases, 50 cents an hour less (or, when talking about charge and specialty positions---MORE). While the hiring preference *may* be a BSN over an ADN, normally the wages aren't very dissimilar....certainly not as much as you profess.
"there is a longer waiting list for the ADN program because anyone can enroll in a community college rather than a university where you'd receive a BSN". Anyone? That would come as a surprise to all those who needed a 4.0 to get into community college, but could get into a private university with a 2.8. Standards vary greatly. For-profit schools tend to have the least requirements but cost the most. As the tuition/total cost goes down, the standards for admission tend to go up, at least when we're talking about nursing programs. More competition for lower tuition=higher standards. The wait lists are also longer at community colleges because they better accommodate non-traditional students (older, with families, jobs, etc) than traditional (dorm-based) universities do.
As for promotion opportunities, this will vary considerably as well. While I absolutely encourage anyone who is able to get a BSN (I'm much in favor of advancing one's education), it is not always as required for job promotion as students are taught. Much depends on the facility, the position, and the experience of the person applying.
I know I answered a post of yours on a thread you started in which you were asking a basic question about the NCLEX (you clearly had misunderstood the info you'd gotten somewhere). You are a student now? Please be careful of spreading misinformation to others. It's rampant on these boards as it is!

2. IS correct, in my area..

ANYONE can enroll in community college reguardless of their GPA.

RNS w/ a BSN have more promotion opportunities than ADN in MY district.

3. after pre'reqs she CAN transfer to university or private institute and do the BSN program

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · May 24, 2013

*** Really? What exactly is a "PHYSICIAN'S ASSISTANT"? I have never heard of such a thing. How are they different than a "Physician Assistant (PA-C)"?
How do you account for the associates degree Physician Assistant programs that exist?
*** Obviously. Is there some debate about this?

No debate at all. Your information just is off a bit.

These programs are not the same thing.

A PHYSICIAN'S ASSISTANT, with an associates degree or less, is simply a medical assistant. They are not licensed (though I believe they can have a certification qualification, just like RNs can in their area of expertise), they are not a PA-C, they do not have the power to diagnose, treat, or recommend treatment. Legally they cannot even comment on a patient's vital signs. They are not nursing assistants nor are they even as high up as an LPN. They are vital to a clinic's practice, but they are not what you're proclaiming. A lot of them do the medical coding, record keeping, and clerical stuff in addition to running in-house labs, taking vital signs, and possibly a brief history from the patient. They are important and they are a huge help in a medical clinic setting, but they are NOT PA-Cs.

A PA-C, a PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT, is a graduate from an accredited physician assistant program at the graduate level, and is a licensed professional with diagnostic, prescribing, and in many cases admitting authority of patients. They work under the supervision of an MD or DO and have extensive education in medicine. They work in clinics as primary care providers, order and interpret diagnostic tests; work in hospitals both as midlevel intensivists and as crosscovering personnel in all specialties; they work in the OR as assistants to surgeons.

The program a PA-C attends was first created at Duke University in NC, when a doctor saw a lot of hospital corpsmen and other highly skilled military medics returning from the Vietnam War with nowhere to use their skills. These folks have done everything from deliver babies to perform minor limb-saving surgeries in the field (my late father flew medevac missions as a Corpsman in the Korean and Vietnam wars), and when they came home, they were more skilled than the RNs at the time and had carried more responsibility than the RNs, but they weren't doctors. This guy invented a program based very much off the accelerated MD courses that were developed during WWII to get as many MDs to the front as possible in the shortest amount of time, and eventually the PA-C career field was born.

They are not physician's assistants, and a physician assistant is not a physician's assistant. This is something that bugs every PA-C I've ever met, and in my opinion, rightfully so.

A PA-C can employ a physician's assistant in his or her clinic, but it doesn't work the other way around.

They are totally separate jobs with separate roles and huge differences in education and responsibilities. And yes, it's terribly simple to confuse the two. You're not the first and you won't be the last. This is part of the reason there's been some talk of changing a PA-C's title to physician extender, and that's not going over well either (I wouldn't want that name, either).

PMFB-RN, RN · May 24, 2013

No debate at all. Your information just is off a bit.
These programs are not the same thing.
A PHYSICIAN'S ASSISTANT, with an associates degree or less, is simply a medical assistant. They are not licensed (though I believe they can have a certification qualification, just like RNs can in their area of expertise), they are not a PA-C, they do not have the power to diagnose, treat, or recommend treatment. Legally they cannot even comment on a patient's vital signs. They are not nursing assistants nor are they even as high up as an LPN. They are vital to a clinic's practice, but they are not what you're proclaiming. A lot of them do the medical coding, record keeping, and clerical stuff in addition to running in-house labs, taking vital signs, and possibly a brief history from the patient. They are important and they are a huge help in a medical clinic setting, but they are NOT PA-Cs.
A PA-C, a PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT, is a graduate from an accredited physician assistant program at the graduate level, and is a licensed professional with diagnostic, prescribing, and in many cases admitting authority of patients. They work under the supervision of an MD or DO and have extensive education in medicine. They work in clinics as primary care providers, order and interpret diagnostic tests; work in hospitals both as midlevel intensivists and as crosscovering personnel in all specialties; they work in the OR as assistants to surgeons.
The program a PA-C attends was first created at Duke University in NC, when a doctor saw a lot of hospital corpsmen and other highly skilled military medics returning from the Vietnam War with nowhere to use their skills. These folks have done everything from deliver babies to perform minor limb-saving surgeries in the field (my late father flew medevac missions as a Corpsman in the Korean and Vietnam wars), and when they came home, they were more skilled than the RNs at the time and had carried more responsibility than the RNs, but they weren't doctors. This guy invented a program based very much off the accelerated MD courses that were developed during WWII to get as many MDs to the front as possible in the shortest amount of time, and eventually the PA-C career field was born.
They are not physician's assistants, and a physician assistant is not a physician's assistant. This is something that bugs every PA-C I've ever met, and in my opinion, rightfully so.
A PA-C can employ a physician's assistant in his or her clinic, but it doesn't work the other way around.
They are totally separate jobs with separate roles and huge differences in education and responsibilities. And yes, it's terribly simple to confuse the two. You're not the first and you won't be the last. This is part of the reason there's been some talk of changing a PA-C's title to physician extender, and that's not going over well either (I wouldn't want that name, either).

*** Uh not quite. First I have never in my life heard the term "physician's assistant" What you describe sounds to me like a medical assistant who may be trained in a few weeks or months at a technical school.

I know exactly what a physician assistant is and I know it doesn't require a graduate degree, though it may well in the future. I also know there are community college associates degree PA programs where graduates will become PA-C.

Here are some examples of associates degree PA programs:

City Colleges of Chicago - Physician Assistant Associate in Applied Science

Physician Assistant Program

Physician Assistant Program | SJVC

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · May 24, 2013

First off, all that is definitely recent development - and it does scare me that someone with less than a masters right out of school is authorized to write me a script. If that makes me some sort of snob, then I'm a snob. And maybe even a jerk. So be it. (CCC has no accreditation, either, and appears to be in probationary status, so I think they're a poor example, but the other two are indeed accredited. Yes, call me anal, but I put stock in that - it does show they're meeting a given standard.) So I'll eat crow on that one with no problems.

Knowing this stuff exists even tees me off more now with docs jumping up and down that MSN prepared RNs with years of experience aren't qualified to diagnose. So they'll trust this without reserve but not an NP? That, in my opinion, is garbage. You've provided me with a great arguement in that respect.

And there certainly is a physician's assistant. The push has been to drop that name because it bugs the PA-Cs. I'm surprised those types of programs haven't gotten into hot water for their wording, because it does mislead an awful lot of people. I do believe 'medical assistant' is the more used term now, but they certainly were called physician's assistants - and in some of these adverts on TV for these for-profit technical schools, they still are - ironically I just saw one, so I know I'm not nuts.

I'm having cranberry sauce with my crow as I admit I was wrong. No big deal - I appreciate the links.

PMFB-RN, RN · May 25, 2013

No debate at all. Your information just is off a bit.

*** Right, it's MY information that is off.

A PHYSICIAN'S ASSISTANT, with an associates degree or less, is simply a medical assistant. They are not licensed (though I believe they can have a certification qualification, just like RNs can in their area of expertise), they are not a PA-C, they do not have the power to diagnose, treat, or recommend treatment.

A PA-C, a PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT, is a graduate from an accredited physician assistant program at the graduate level, and is a licensed professional with diagnostic, prescribing, and in many cases admitting authority of patients. They work under the supervision of an MD or DO and have extensive education in medicine.

*** Just curious, do you have any idea of how rude and condecending your post is? What simple, obvious thing will you explain next? The difference between CNA and RN? The difference between a physician and a dentist?

BTW inall my years of hospital and transport nursing I have never heard a medical assistant refered to as a physician's assistant. I am however opening minded about it, there may be some areas of the country that call them that.

PMFB-RN, RN · May 25, 2013

First off, all that is definitely recent development -

*** Wow, I find you shockingly missinformed for a person who makes such bold statements. If you took a minimum effor to educate yourself on the subject you post on you would know that it is graduate PA education that is the more recent development.

and it does scare me that someone with less than a masters right out of school is authorized to write me a script. If that makes me some sort of snob, then I'm a snob. And maybe even a jerk.

*** I don't think that's what it makes you.

So be it. (CCC has no accreditation, either, and appears to be in probationary status, so I think they're a poor example, but the other two are indeed accredited. Yes, call me anal, but I put stock in that - it does show they're meeting a given standard.)

*** There are more, I just picked 3 at random.

Knowing this stuff exists even tees me off more now with docs jumping up and down that MSN prepared RNs with years of experience aren't qualified to diagnose. So they'll trust this without reserve but not an NP? That, in my opinion, is garbage. You've provided me with a great arguement in that respect.

*** The one I use is all of the physicians practicing in the USA who don't have graduate degrees, only bachelors degrees.

I can only imagine how shocked you might be to find that your surgegon has a couple bachelors degree, but no MD or DO like my daughters did. BTW I Work with him and trust him completely.

As for "physician's assistant". Must be a regional thing as I have worked in 4 states as a staff RN and several more as a traveler and never heard of it.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · May 25, 2013

WHOA - I'd like proof of an attending surgeon with no MD/DO degree. And nope, I wouldn't want one. At all. And anyone who cuts into me will be board certified as well.

I've lived all over the country, and seen those adverts all over the country. It's far from regional. As I said, it's a dying name, or so it seems - but it's not confined to one area. I even looked it up some years ago to see just what it was. They don't exist in hosptials - though I did know a unit clerk with an AS of that sort.

I could truly care less what you think I am - especially since I admitted my error. But that's your decision. Why would someone look for something previously they'd not known to exist? I checked your links and ate my crow. Done.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · May 25, 2013

*** Right, it's MY information that is off.
*** Just curious, do you have any idea of how rude and condecending your post is? What simple, obvious thing will you explain next? The difference between CNA and RN? The difference between a physician and a dentist?
BTW inall my years of hospital and transport nursing I have never heard a medical assistant refered to as a physician's assistant. I am however opening minded about it, there may be some areas of the country that call them that.

At the time, I believed it was. And it would seem I've admitted to my error and - wow - even apologized for it. And as for the rude and condescending bit, I don't think it is at all. Furthermore, the caps were to highlight the difference in the words, not for anything else. I even said "'s" is a VITAL part and an important part of a clinic environment. I doubt a busy practice could function smoothly without one.

You can draw your own conclusions. I won't argue with you because really, I don't care about your personal opinion of me.

JustBeachyNurse, LPN · May 25, 2013

Thread closed for cooling off period.