ADN's being pushed out - page 7

I work for a large Magnet hospital. As nursing becomes more popular, and nurses not in short supply, I have noticed something ominous has being going on lately. Several of our older and very seasoned... Read More

  1. Visit  DoGoodThenGo profile page
    2
    Quote from chuckster
    Wow - that is borderline insane. I take that back, it's really simply insane. This is the first time I've ever heard of something like this. I would love to hear the tortured logic behind this one.
    Now that is just wrong. So basically the place would take a new ABSN grad with zero experience over an ADN or LPN to RN who could bring anywhere from one to twenty years of current nursing practice to the table?

    Someone needs to contact the EEOC and or start some lawsuits as this is getting just stupid. So basically we 've got if you're:

    too old,
    too much experience
    too little experience
    don't have a BSN
    don't have an undergraduate BSN
    didn't graduate with a GPA average >3.0
    are too slow
    are too fast
    aren't pretty enough
    are too pretty

    Hospitals are saying don't what cha, don't need ya. And yet there is so much noise about a nursing shortage. *LOL*
    mya612 and anniv91106 like this.
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  3. Visit  DoGoodThenGo profile page
    0
    Quote from chuckster
    There are five diploma programs in the Phila area where I'm located. All appear to be going strong and have excellent NCLEX pass rates. As the [paraphrased] saying goes, you can't swing a dead cat in Philly without hitting a diploma grad.
    Personally think many diploma grads are great, and if such grads could be assured of a spot they could hold for say ten yearsor so (until they got their BSN and or AP degree), or dare one say it *gasp* lifetime employment at a particular hospital/heathcare system you would get much greater interest.
  4. Visit  kitty13 profile page
    0
    Take a look at the ANCC website and them tell me what you think may be influencing healthcare. Also review magnet hospitals and what it will do for patient care out comes, then tell me your thoughts. I was amazed and enlightened
  5. Visit  NadiaMarie profile page
    3
    Quote from a016202
    Explain to me how more education (4 years vs 2) does NOT make you a better nurse?? How, exactly is an ADN better prepared than a BSN? That is nonsense. And guess who else thinks so?? Magnet and most other hospitals, pharma and research companies, universities, etc. If you are fine with an ADN that's great, but don't try to belittle those whose took the incentive for a more well-rounded education. Or in my case, a MSN.
    For my ADN program I had to take a ton of prerequisite classes. A few semesters worth. I just completed my ADN coursework and am currently job hunting and looking into RN-BSN programs currently. I think that BSN should be mandatory to make you a well rounded nurse but I will say that ADN programs do get a lot of clinical hours that some BSN programs don't. I have friends that were in BSN programs and we compared. They couldn't believe how much time we have on the floor. My program was based in a hospital. I've always planned on getting my BSN and MSN...the only reason I chose an ADN program was I needed to get into the field as soon as possible and take my NCLEX as soon as possible. No one should ever stop their education but an ADN is a great, affordable way to enter the career. It's all about what you make of your education. Yes, BSN prepared nurses are more well rounded...but I wouldn't necessarily agree that BSN prepared nurses are any more clinically prepared than ADNs.
  6. Visit  NadiaMarie profile page
    0
    I am from New York, I'm not speaking for all BSN or ADN programs but I went to an ADN program and we had so much time on the floor. My ADN program we went to a different facility for each class for the entire length of the semester. For Foundations in nursing we were at a long term care facility, for Med/Surg we were at our hospital that our ADN program is based out of, the same for Advanced Med/Surg, for Psych we spent the entire semester at our local psychiatric hospital, for PEDS we were at Westchester Medical Center's Maria Fareri Children's Hospital, and for Maternity we had half the semester in the nursery and half the semester in post-partum with an observational experience a few times in labor and delivery. We only had simulation twice a semester to do rarer scenarios. A couple of my friends who I know that went to two different BSN programs, both did a lot more simulation and less time on the floor. Depends on where you go honestly. Can't speak for all BSN or ADN programs I'm just talking from my personal experience of the ADN I went to and BSN programs I have been exposed to through my friends.

    I am continuing on for my BSN because I always planned on getting it, and my MSN...but ADN nurses ARE prepared to successfully enter the field as a nurse and hit the ground running on the floor.
  7. Visit  JRich profile page
    0
    I am an ADN, I was refused by a few hospitals that are magnet status because I don't have a BSN. I did get a job at another hospital in the Houston area. I am very thankful they gave me the opportunity to work in a hospital and didn't discriminate me because of my ADN degree.
  8. Visit  kcmylorn profile page
    3
    I just want to back up a bit and comment on the ADN programs being given sim Lab experience only while the BSN's are getting floor experience in Philly. Yes, I do believe that. The Philly area is very snobbish and are elitists when it comes to BSN only. The Philly academia is trying to get rid of all the the ADN, diploma programs and this is one of the ways they are making their point. They are making it almost impossible for the ADN and diploma programs to give clinical time to their students.


    The other way they are making their point is the Magnet nonsense. Hospitals are throwing away/spending thousands of dollars to the AACN to gain a Magnet crown and Miss America sash and that is all it is a useless crown and sash for the beauty pagent contestant hopefuls of the by gone era who were simply too dowdy and fugly to even get entered. They are the 'now a days' nursing administrators who if a picture were taken- the camera would break, a peeping tom would vomit on the window sill. They are the same ones who are now practicing the elitism in Nursing in the $300 Ann Taylor suits and coach bags. Looks have escaped them and years later- still do. Donald Trump's hair would stand on end; as a matter of fact they resemble old Donald, especially around the puckered mouth!! JMHO--- I couldn't resist
    gummi bear, proud nurse, and kitty13 like this.
  9. Visit  kitty13 profile page
    0
    bravo, Bravo. !!!!!!!!!!!!!
  10. Visit  chuckster profile page
    0
    Quote from kcmylorn
    I just want to back up a bit and comment on the ADN programs being given sim Lab experience only while the BSN's are getting floor experience in Philly. Yes, I do believe that. The Philly area is very snobbish and are elitists when it comes to BSN only. The Philly academia is trying to get rid of all the the ADN, diploma programs and this is one of the ways they are making their point. They are making it almost impossible for the ADN and diploma programs to give clinical time to their students.
    That wasn't my experience. I went to one of the Philly area CC's for my ADN. We had quite a bit of clinical time, roughly 1,000 hours over the course of the program. We did some days in the sim lab the first semester, so that the instructors could be reasonably certain we weren't going to kill our patients. After those first few weeks though, it was all clinical rotations. I'm not sure how this stacks up against the area BSN programs, but I have to think it is at least similar. Students in the diploma programs probably do quite a bit more than that though.

    Quote from kcmylorn
    The other way they are making their point is the Magnet nonsense. . .
    I agree that Magnet status is largely irrelevant and will crowd out some very highly qualified AD-only nurses. In my view, many of the hospitals are doing this not so much because they are sold on the idea of BSN=Better Patient Outcomes but rather for publicity reasons and simply because they can, due to the glut of nurses in the Phila region.
  11. Visit  NadiaMarie profile page
    0
    Quote from kcmylorn
    I just want to back up a bit and comment on the ADN programs being given sim Lab experience only while the BSN's are getting floor experience in Philly. Yes, I do believe that. The Philly area is very snobbish and are elitists when it comes to BSN only. The Philly academia is trying to get rid of all the the ADN, diploma programs and this is one of the ways they are making their point. They are making it almost impossible for the ADN and diploma programs to give clinical time to their students.


    The other way they are making their point is the Magnet nonsense. Hospitals are throwing away/spending thousands of dollars to the AACN to gain a Magnet crown and Miss America sash and that is all it is a useless crown and sash for the beauty pagent contestant hopefuls of the by gone era who were simply too dowdy and fugly to even get entered. They are the 'now a days' nursing administrators who if a picture were taken- the camera would break, a peeping tom would vomit on the window sill. They are the same ones who are now practicing the elitism in Nursing in the $300 Ann Taylor suits and coach bags. Looks have escaped them and years later- still do. Donald Trump's hair would stand on end; as a matter of fact they resemble old Donald, especially around the puckered mouth!! JMHO--- I couldn't resist
    I graduated from a ADN program and we were in the hospital (multiple different hospitals actually). We only went into our sim lab 2 times each semester. I'm from NY I don't know if that has anything to do with it. That's a shame if other ADN programs only have simulation. Ours was not like that all.
  12. Visit  kcmylorn profile page
    0
    I live in this appauling philly area and have worked as an RN in this apaulling philly areas for 32 years. I am a diploma grad- I know first hand what this area is and what it is not and what it is doing and what it is not doing. I know that the BSN academia have all but cornered the market on hospitals giving clinical hours to their BSN students and not to the diploma or ADN students. This is not the first time I have heard this. Helen Fuld School of nursing over 100 years old - a 3 yr diploma school: is it shut down or is it not? Mercer County Community College's Nursing program-- 2yr ADN- is it t shut down or is it not? I know some of the big guns in Nursing "BSN only push academia" are right here in my backyard. Does Philadelphia community college still have it's 2 yr nursing program?

    I know what the philly job market for nurses is and what it isn't as I have been pounding it's preverbial pavement since 2008! This job market is so mean and so closed- that I am trying my best to move the H*** out of here.

    I have seen our wages fall by almost $20.oo/hr. At least for me- 32yrs of hospital experience. This is disgusting Even agency wages have gone to the crapper!!

    Older nurses have been gotton rid of in the philly Area hospitals -right and left- that I know too- when you are forced to seek a succession of temp position for 4 yrs, you meet 'alot' of nurses, and I do happen to go into grocery stores and retail stores, run into them and talk to them. I witnessed first hand- Deborah Heart and Lung handed their older nurses severence packages in the summer of 2008 and told them to go quietly or stay and be fired. I know a major hospital in Camden who is running it's older nurses out by harassing and intimidating behavior, while the other one posts bogus job postings and responds to 32 yr old veteran RN's they 'don't have the experience they were looking for " What kind of crap is that!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I know almost all the job positions for nurses are fake, non existant. I apply to them. and report them to the dept of labor which I have become a familiar face- unemployment. I write letters of complaint to Unemployment, the Dept of Health, the New Jersey State Nursing Sssociation and Bores of Nursing and the EEOC- which insidently has an office on Market St.
    Yes, I know more about the nursing situation in PHilly than I care to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and it is not saying anything good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This old nurse has kept their mouth shut toooooooooooo long.
    The philly area hospital system is more corrupt than the mob.
  13. Visit  kcmylorn profile page
    0
    Then to over to the Jersey side- the NJ hospital association is run by one of the biggest hypocrits and crooks in healthcare on the eastern seaboard- I have a tinkle target with his picture on it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  14. Visit  proud nurse profile page
    2
    Quote from sjpns12
    I am a new graduate of an ADN program and will be pursuing my BSN this fall because I keep being told that eventually we will be told we will have to have it by 2020. I recently got a job and asked my employer about tution reimbursement and pay differential for BSN. I was shocked to find out from HR there is NO tution help and absolutely NO differential in pay. I am really taken back by this since they are pushing for their nurses to become a BSN, which I might add, not ONE nurse in this hospital is a BSN. I will probably be the first one even over my Nurse Manager who is "working" on it. UGH
    At my pinning ceremony, the Dean of Nursing congratulated us all on how wonderful of an accomplishment we all achieved and should be so proud. The next sentence: ADN programs will be a thing of the past, you will need to pursue a BSN by 2020 to stay in the competetive job market. WTH?

    I just graduated in May. I'm working full time and I'm exhausted. School is not on my mind right now. I also work for a Magnet hospital. Many people were surprised I was hired, knowing that they really only want BSN's. The majority are BSN, put there are plenty of ADN. I will go back, but I'd like to catch my breath first.
    FLNurseGuy and NurseJenny:-) like this.


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