ADN's being pushed out

Students ADN/BSN

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Long Term Care Columnist / Guide

VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN

22 Articles; 9,987 Posts

Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.

After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that I must be a throwback to the "good old days", even though I graduated from an ADN program in 1997 and never went further. I've been able to go as far as I wanted to with my associate's degree; last winter I was even offered a position as the national Director of Clinical Operations for my company, despite their knowledge that I'm "only" an ADN. The VP of Clinical Ops put it this way: "We don't care if you've got two initials or twenty behind your name---you know your stuff and that's the only thing that matters!" :lol2:

I turned down the position because I'm not a big fan of spending my life in airports; but the point was driven home that my life experience and competence as a nurse were what had induced the company to offer me this opportunity for advancement. Don't get me wrong---I'm all for education! Indeed, my advice to nursing students nowadays is to go straight for the BSN (or even the MSN) because it's so much easier than going back for it later (or not at all). But those of us with ADNs and years of experience, who are too tapped out financially and physically to even want to go back to school, should be allowed to finish out our careers without being forced to wrestle with O-Chem and Statistics in our twilight years. Just saying.:)

Kidrn911

331 Posts

Specializes in Peds ED, Peds Stem Cell Transplant, Peds.

I work in Chicago and ADN are si very much getting pushed out

DoGoodThenGo

4,129 Posts

"Many?" She mentioned one that does this. My ASN program had more clinical hours than the BSN program from the same college, and our NCLEX pass rate was better. Sad but it seems it's school by school.

More and more programs of all stripes are relying upon increased use of simulation labs for various reasons.Everything from shortage of qualified clinical instuctors to available facilities with open slots for students are being blamed (if that is the proper word) for nursing schools having to use labs more than bedside for learning skills.

If facilities lack stable census numbers to keep staff nurses busy what is there for students to do? With the push for ever shorter hospital stays before pts are either discharged to home, LTC or rehab also reflects in the hospital census so instructors can be hard pressed to find enough to go around.

For many areas hospitals and other facilities closing left and right and or reducing inpatient beds but the number of nursing programs has remained constant if not grown, this can lead to a surplus of schools all trying to get their students into the places that remain. Here in NYC schools are sending students to LTC and anyplace else that suits besides hospitals in order to meet clinical time requirements, that simply is where the patients are to be found. Some hospitals here also are starting to limit themselves to working with only certain programs.

DoGoodThenGo

4,129 Posts

Reasonable minds can agree that by and large the difference between the average ADN and BSN programs isn't that vast of a difference, especially in terms of clinical and or skills content. So therefore what remains are the gen ed and other classes that round out the credit requirements for a four year degree, and what do hospitals moving towards "BSN preferred" see in them.

Nursing arts/skills can be learned nd or taught by hospitals. Lord knows they did so for over one hundred years via their diploma programs. So what if anything does the extra sciences, math, English and so forth bring to the table? It would be interesting to find out what a hospital such as NYP or NYU feels they are getting from a BSN grad with a 3.0 or 3.5 GPA that cannot be found in an ADN prepared nurse with the same average.

. . .

Kay, a diploma grad! I'm glad there are still at least a few still around! :bow: I have a soft spot for those schools, and there are very few out here on the West coast!

There are five diploma programs in the Phila area where I'm located. All appear to be going strong and have excellent NCLEX pass rates. As the [paraphrased] saying goes, you can't swing a dead cat in Philly without hitting a diploma grad.
One hospital I was interested says:

"Graduated from an NLNAC or CCNE accredited nursing baccalaureate program (BSN). Candidates graduating from an Associates Degree-to-BSN or LPN-to-BSN programs are not eligible"

:(

Wow - that is borderline insane. I take that back, it's really simply insane. This is the first time I've ever heard of something like this. I would love to hear the tortured logic behind this one.

DoGoodThenGo

4,129 Posts

Wow - that is borderline insane. I take that back, it's really simply insane. This is the first time I've ever heard of something like this. I would love to hear the tortured logic behind this one.

Now that is just wrong. So basically the place would take a new ABSN grad with zero experience over an ADN or LPN to RN who could bring anywhere from one to twenty years of current nursing practice to the table?

Someone needs to contact the EEOC and or start some lawsuits as this is getting just stupid. So basically we 've got if you're:

too old,

too much experience

too little experience

don't have a BSN

don't have an undergraduate BSN

didn't graduate with a GPA average >3.0

are too slow

are too fast

aren't pretty enough

are too pretty

Hospitals are saying don't what cha, don't need ya. And yet there is so much noise about a nursing shortage. *LOL*

DoGoodThenGo

4,129 Posts

There are five diploma programs in the Phila area where I'm located. All appear to be going strong and have excellent NCLEX pass rates. As the [paraphrased] saying goes, you can't swing a dead cat in Philly without hitting a diploma grad.

Personally think many diploma grads are great, and if such grads could be assured of a spot they could hold for say ten yearsor so (until they got their BSN and or AP degree), or dare one say it *gasp* lifetime employment at a particular hospital/heathcare system you would get much greater interest.

kitty13

13 Posts

Take a look at the ANCC website and them tell me what you think may be influencing healthcare. Also review magnet hospitals and what it will do for patient care out comes, then tell me your thoughts. I was amazed and enlightened

NadiaMarie

21 Posts

Explain to me how more education (4 years vs 2) does NOT make you a better nurse?? How, exactly is an ADN better prepared than a BSN? That is nonsense. And guess who else thinks so?? Magnet and most other hospitals, pharma and research companies, universities, etc. If you are fine with an ADN that's great, but don't try to belittle those whose took the incentive for a more well-rounded education. Or in my case, a MSN.

For my ADN program I had to take a ton of prerequisite classes. A few semesters worth. I just completed my ADN coursework and am currently job hunting and looking into RN-BSN programs currently. I think that BSN should be mandatory to make you a well rounded nurse but I will say that ADN programs do get a lot of clinical hours that some BSN programs don't. I have friends that were in BSN programs and we compared. They couldn't believe how much time we have on the floor. My program was based in a hospital. I've always planned on getting my BSN and MSN...the only reason I chose an ADN program was I needed to get into the field as soon as possible and take my NCLEX as soon as possible. No one should ever stop their education but an ADN is a great, affordable way to enter the career. It's all about what you make of your education. Yes, BSN prepared nurses are more well rounded...but I wouldn't necessarily agree that BSN prepared nurses are any more clinically prepared than ADNs.

NadiaMarie

21 Posts

I am from New York, I'm not speaking for all BSN or ADN programs but I went to an ADN program and we had so much time on the floor. My ADN program we went to a different facility for each class for the entire length of the semester. For Foundations in nursing we were at a long term care facility, for Med/Surg we were at our hospital that our ADN program is based out of, the same for Advanced Med/Surg, for Psych we spent the entire semester at our local psychiatric hospital, for PEDS we were at Westchester Medical Center's Maria Fareri Children's Hospital, and for Maternity we had half the semester in the nursery and half the semester in post-partum with an observational experience a few times in labor and delivery. We only had simulation twice a semester to do rarer scenarios. A couple of my friends who I know that went to two different BSN programs, both did a lot more simulation and less time on the floor. Depends on where you go honestly. Can't speak for all BSN or ADN programs I'm just talking from my personal experience of the ADN I went to and BSN programs I have been exposed to through my friends.

I am continuing on for my BSN because I always planned on getting it, and my MSN...but ADN nurses ARE prepared to successfully enter the field as a nurse and hit the ground running on the floor.

JRich

330 Posts

Specializes in NICU.

I am an ADN, I was refused by a few hospitals that are magnet status because I don't have a BSN. I did get a job at another hospital in the Houston area. I am very thankful they gave me the opportunity to work in a hospital and didn't discriminate me because of my ADN degree.

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