In progress MSN... can't stand nursing theory... switching to PA school ASAP

Nursing Students Post Graduate

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I couldn't believe I was being asked to write paper after paper about Watson and her nonsense. Lately, I've talked to a couple of women who were going into nursing school and I asked them if they'd ever considered PA school. If I knew then what I know now, I would have gone the PA route.

Tonight I was talking to another one who was going into nursing and I brought up PA school.

Then I thought to myself... why don't I stop the insanity and drop out of the MSN program and move to a good PA school? I looked up the local schools, and holy smoke, I qualify for admission.

I like the science, the pathophys, pharmacology/kinetics, that stuff. It's great! I couldn't be less interested in the history of nursing. I want to treat the patient.

I guess that's it for me here.

Specializes in Forensic Psychiatric Nursing.
I'm curious--Are you in a NP program, or in some other MSN program?

It's a generic MSN with no specific focus. The reason I'm taking this course is to move on to a psychiatric NP in the future. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify. I believe the MSN/FNP programs are far superior to the generic MSN program.

The DnP programs are fantastic as well. I have a friend going through one right now, and he is swamped.

Specializes in Family Practice, Primary Care.

I was gonna say algebra...maybe it's just your school that is horrible. I have one class in nursing theory in my FNP program and we skimmed it in research methods (and it was mentioned once in my BSN program for 10 seconds). I think it depends on the stance of the school, not the MSN degree in general.

I think theory is important because it defines how we practice; for example, Florence Nightengale had a theory about disease causation and reduced mortality greatly. Medicine operates on theories. Every academic discipline does.

My first BA is in sociology, and I think that allows me to understand where nursing theory is coming from as sociology is all about grand theories, and I see many of them being played out before my very eyes in settings and so I see theory as something that can be very applicable and I definitely use sociological principles in my care of patients. I do agree that some nursing theories are somewhat "fluffy", but I do see the benefits of Benner's Novice to Expert theory (and how it has been applied to orient new nurses with a thorough training period rather than throwing them to the wolves).

I'm sorry you're unhappy with the school you've chosen, but I hardly think that justifies dismissing all graduate nursing education out of hand. My MSN program was nothing like what you describe. It was v. rigorous and clinically focused, with almost none of what are often referred to here as "fluff" courses. The one "trends & issues" course was relevant and useful. There was no mention of nursing theory apart from what was directly relevant to our various advanced practice clinical specialties. Perhaps you would have been happier if you'd put more effort into choosing a program that would better suit your needs and interests. There is a lot of variation (in quality as well as everything else) among graduate programs in nursing, and one has to be a careful "shopper."

In a "generalist" MSN program, what did you expect to be studying? If your goal is to end up a psych NP, why didn't you just go to a psych NP program in the first place? What was your rationale for first doing an MSN in an area you're not interested in, and then doing most of another MSN in the concentration that you are interested in? (I'm not asking that to be snarky, I'm just sincerely curious -- why would you want to put in all the extra time, effort, and $$$?)

Of course, if you feel you'll be happier as a PA, I'm certainly not discouraging you from doing that. Best wishes for your journey!

Greygoose:

I wouldn't say Flo rocked because of theory: I think she rocked because she used statistics to track outcomes, among other things. That's my opinion.

And do we really need a capital T Theory to tell us that when we start, we don't know much, but as we do it we get better? If we do, I seriously despair. (The steps also defy common sense and any dictionary.)

That's the problem with every single Theory -- they're major Duhs. Has any person with an IQ high enough not to drown in their saliva really not thought of these things? They do indeed sound like a cartoon. Or a Disney Princess movie song. They sound superficially profound, but the cool kids are snickering. My instructor covered them with a lot of sighing and eye-rolling -- and she's seriously awesome and seriously skilled.

It's like a bad actress who wanders around, handing out sheets of ancient, heavily edited reviews "Here's this person's theory of what I do, and here's 7 ways I think critically and Maslov -- Ah! Maslov!" when the only thing that matters t the patient, to the supervisors, the families and the MDs is what happens when we walk into the patient's room that day.

The question remains - is THIS what we want to set as the hallmark of our professionalism? Or is it our actual professional knowledge?

I wish the original poster well. I don't think any of us are going to jump the fence on this one. But I think the issue of why schools still put so much emphasis on theory is interesting.

Specializes in Family Practice, Primary Care.

I think theory is more useful if you plan on going into research, because research really SHOULD have a theoretical foundation and lens.

Here is why I think theory belongs in a master of science in nursing degree: because it is a MASTERS degree in the SCIENCE of nursing. There is a reason every APN has a core set of classes they have to take in addition to their concentration, and that is because it is the foundation of the degree. Are some courses going to be more useful than others? Yes. Having a BA in sociology, I can see value in theory. For example, I view most life situations and interactions from the lens of conflict theory and rational choice theory. It guides my thinking and how I process others' actions.

It is good for EVERY academic discipline to have theories written down and recorded because without a log showing why an academic discipline IS what it IS, well....you just don't have a separate discipline and your discipline has no creedence. If you aren't academically minded, theory generally won't mean much to you, but to us that know how to utilize it, it is useful. So just suck it up and learn it and then forget it after your class is over if you want.

Specializes in Forensic Psychiatric Nursing.

Time to Eat Crow

I'm actually going back to my MSN program with the plan to finish, then move on the psych NP. It just so happens my state gives MUCH more autonomy to NPs than PAs, I can handle more acute cases than a PA, EDs don't hire PAs...

Holy crap, I'm actually going to write dozens more papers on Watson's nonsense and try not to laugh when I do it.

Beyond ridiculous, but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do.

I will always look back on my MSN degree with derision, but if that's what it takes to get the acuity/autonomy, I'm going to do it.

One serving of crow per semester, please.

Specializes in Gerontology, nursing education.

No crow being served up...but have you considered switching to a different master's program? While you would have to take some sort of theory course in any master's level nursing program, most don't have quite the emphasis on one theorist that your school seems to have.

No graduate program is perfect and will meet the needs of every student. Some courses may be stellar, some may be the pits. Sometimes you need to man up (or put on the big girl panties) and just get through the courses that are frustrating. Sometimes you need to consider another school.

FWIW, I switched graduate schools. I started at one school and was reasonably satisfied until I got to my focus area courses, which were poorly organized and were lacking in what I felt I needed to learn in order to practice competently in my area of interest. It was a difficult decision and I didn't go back to school right away after leaving that program, but eventually I found a program that excels in my particular focus area. Again, it's not a perfect program and a couple of classes have been frustrating, but I am getting what I need out of the program.

I think I would go out of my mind if I was attending a program that pushed a particular theorist with whom I did not agree. If Watson is the only theorist you're studying and all your papers have to examine her philosophies and no others, you might want to look around at a few other schools. I wouldn't be surprised if you could transfer in the credits you've already taken.

Wishing you the best with this! (And, glad to see we're keeping you in nursing!)

I agree with you about the theory classes.....gag me! I am just doing what I have to do to get through and learning what I need to on my own mostly. I considered changing programs but was not willing to give up a year or so of time during the switch.

Hang in there, we can do it!!

I bailed out of my MSN program. Looked at dozens of others and just could not deal with silly group projects, papers on theorists AGAIN, be it online or in a classroom. I have a bachelor's in another field, (political science) so I am applying for a Master's of Science in Elder Care Mgmt. I am currently doing psych home care nursing for medically fragile psych pts. Love the home care aspect, could do without some of the younger drug seeking psych pts. LOVE the elderly pts. It took me awhile to change focus from MSN, but I will still be a nurse, but using my expertise to navigate the insurance/services quagmire on behalf of elderly patients. Some times we have to let an idea swirl around in our brains before an answer comes to us.

Maura

I know this topic is a bit old, but wow, I agree with you 100%. I'm in the midst of my BScN program, and so far I've been able to get all A's - well, its not happening this semester because of this course...to me it's just so forced, so "captain Obvious to the rescue"...All these theories - it's like someone is trying to put something that is already common sense/knowledge in the wordiest most confusing form possible. I am studying for my midterm and honestly I want to bang my head against the wall....

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